All these weight loss drugs... surely we are heading towards disaster?

[shellswirl]

So as we all know there are various weight loss drugs that have become very popular in recent months.

It seems like the whole of Hollywood is using it.

Even regular people are spending huge amounts of money on it from online pharmacies.

I get that these drugs might be useful for certain people with real medical conditions, but really a lot of people are using it as a quick fix to be thin.

With no consideration to side effects or future health. And without thinking about what happens when you stop it?

Surely the best way to lose weight involves no drugs. No fad diets. But exercising more, moving more, eating a balanced diet. Retraining your brain and finding food and exercise you enjoy.

I say this as an overweight person too! Surely there are other ways.

If every other person is taking these drugs won't there be a huge pool of people to monitor side effects etc?

Aibu to say the whole thing makes me feel very uneasy.

I agree it's genetic. We really don't have as much control over it as we think. Those of us who are like this can be slim but it's an absolute uphill battle and something which you need to constantly work at.

I agree @Comedycook. The thing is the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Clearly the underlying issue is physiological because weight gain and changes to the brain don't happen overnight and they stay with you for life, whether you're slim or fat, your brain is an obese-thinking brain.

Psychological factors are contributing to obesity for many people. They can trigger compulsive, soothing behaviours and a form of addiction to food, but they aren't the addiction itself. Of course they can continue to fuel it, for example if you go through trauma or stressful events in life, if you feel low about yourself and your weight etc.

It's a vicious circle. The two often go together. There is no doubt that psychological issues also contribute to hormonal imbalance which is also an important factor in obesity.

It doesn't need to be a binary issue. Addressing the physiological side often gives people the headspace to look into psychological or other issues which also need to be managed.

Yes this.

Until I started MJ I didn’t know how people could be tempted by crap food, but still say no and not be that bothered. Now I do.

Agree. I’m not just a bit tubby. I don’t live a normal life any more. My weight rules my life in every way. If this helps me get my life back who is anyone else to judge far less have it dressed up as concern.

As someone whom is a prescriber of these drugs I’ve seen people whom have sat in front of me emotionally and mentally breaking down and have done everything possible to shift weight and others who simply don’t want to try and want a quick fix.

That is evidence for a different medication. But I think you will find across the board that often one study disputes or overturns the findings of another study and then is itself disputed or overturned.

Apologies.
Yes I understand what you're saying and it is going to happen for some no matter how much they try to emphasise the importance of a healthy lifestyle and healthy eating habits. Like with anything else.

Things have been moving extremely fast with these weight loss drugs, I didn't even know that they were being prescribed to people until recently. And it's only now that it seems people are really discussing the actual facts and truth of trying to lose weight, and the permanent damage weight gain can do to hormones etc

And a lot of people are responding with anger as we've seen, but this is the start of the conversation and the education I suppose.

I'm in Ireland and the HSE lead on obesity is very excited about these drugs (maybe a bit too excited because he's saying obesity will be a disease of the past but I do still think there will obese people because these drugs are not going to be suitable for everyone but then he's more of an expert than me 😂) but he's also being very blunt with the truth on weight loss, that yes people can lose some but almost everyone will gain it back, and he talks about how there needs to be a big focus on prevention.

And as I said, a lot of people are responding with anger, some overweight and obese people don't want to believe that statistically more than likely they will be 'stuck' this way by following the normal methods, and it seems that a lot of normal weight people just don't buy it at all and don't understand that the persons body and brain is screaming at them to eat.

But even though a lot of people are responding with anger it's at least the start of the conversation and education, some people are learning and are understanding it better, doctors, therapists, overweight people and normal weight people and I think in a few years time people will understand it a hell of a lot more, from that hopefully they can maximise the amount of people who really will use this drug to its full advantage to better their health and hopefully minimise the amount who abuse the drug.

Very, very uneasy.

But it's just the West.

Give a human being no responsibility, unlimited food, and they'll just eat themselves to death.

Give a human being cigarettes, no restrictions, and they'll just smoke themselves to death.

Being the most intelligent species, does not mean all human beings make intelligent choices.

Food - the obese try to glorify it. And the food industry backs it.

Cigarettes - they tried to make it sexy. And the cigarette industry backed it.

Common sense? What? That's never been respected.

And just after the blood scandal .... isn't everyone feeling a bit queasy about doctors who suggest injecting new drugs into children, instead of just giving out food vouchers for healthier food to people.

I'm absolutely not saying benefits people are the problem. I'm absolutely saying that if you can target a section of financially-dependent society, and ensure their children are better fed and healthier - you're setting a new precedent for others to follow.

Being the most intelligent species, does not mean all human beings make intelligent choices.

Our brains might be intelligent but our bodies and hormones are fairly stupid for lots of things.

We have an alarm system that used to help protect us against sabertooth tigers and it's now misfiring in many people making them too panicked to even make a phone call or walk outside their house in case a friendly neighbour tries to talk to them.

In response to abusive relationships the combination of the hormones, stress and bonding often influences the brain to become even more attached to the abuser.

It's also not just the west. At all.

“Being the most intelligent species, does not mean all human beings make intelligent choices”

Yea the choice to write much of that post clearly illustrates this nicely.

@kkloo you’re right about it not being a ‘west’ thing. Was looking at data the other day about this. It showed that 23% of men and 24% of women in India are obese compared to 25.9% of British people and in Bangladesh: ‘A systematic review study reported that, from 1998 to 2015, Bangladesh experienced an increased rate of obesity that varied from 1% to 23% among children and from 1.7% to 25.6% among adolescents’.

It’s a myth that it’s just a western issue - although I do wonder whether their adoption of western food/lifestyles may be triggering changes in the brain and body (or genes) that, once you been exposed to them, become overweight/obese, you it hard to fight your way back from it.

I am of the mind now (it has taken decades to come around to it) that maybe there really should be more regulation about how food is processed, maybe even more taxes on processed foods so they are not the cheaper option for single people or those on lower incomes, and a real education to get people back to a more whole food diet to try and prevent those obesity genes being switched on in the first place.

@OldPerson
Do you know that free school meals does not cover the cost of a meal (two courses)? It allows for a small roll and no drink. The allowance is £2.50 for a growing secondary school child. They need more calories than a grown man.
Some schools have sponsored breakfast clubs. Most families living in poverty have mothers who live on toast.
My niece does because her ex partner hides his money and won't pay child support. He was abusive. No one cares to help her.
She is not overweight because her chef mother taught her to cook.
There are few domestic science classes in schools, attendance is everything. Life skills virtually nil. Blame this goverment.
We have a whole generation pumped full of UPF. It's addictive. The twin doctors on the BBC proved it. They were threatened.
We need to start young.
A different curriculum that focuses on the whole person. Please God let us have some politicians who know their jobs (ex teachers for education, doctors for health etc.).

Interesting article:

The Ozempic paradox: lighter but fatter (afr.com)

See the more recent research (2024) posted above that shows that fewer people on Ozempic/tirezapide regain the weight than those on traditional diets: 17% v 80%. It followed 20000+ patients and was a peer reviewed study, not an opinion piece by a journalist cherry picking interviews with exercise scientists rather than speaking to endocrinologists specialised in this area.

@BusyMummy001 can you re post please. It's linking to the 2023 piece.

A more recent trial does not mean a better trial. There was no need to be rude and disparaging about the experts consulted. There were opinions from researchers, a professor of exercise physiology, and a doctor who is an expert in nutrition, both from prestigious universities, and a professor with experience in the long-term unwanted effects of other "miracle" drugs. I thought they made some interesting points.

Anybody who has been alive for more than five minutes, and is compos mentis, can recall the checkered history of previous "miracle" weightloss drugs. The drug companies don't care, they will rake in the megabillions, and have plenty to spare to pay out a few billion on class action lawsuits down the line.

Hi, @Mrsredlipstick

This was the research: peer reviewed, 20,200 ish participants, published in 2024 - ie a huge contemporary study that rebuffs the ‘you’ll gain it all back’ narrative. I do wonder whether the fact that it is so expensive, and that people are making a huge personal financial commitment to buy the medication, may mean that people are very committed to taking the opportunity it presents to reeducate themselves about food and diet so that it stays off afterwards.

My therapist friends all say that when they see clients, the ones that have their sessions paid for (by employers/parents) are far less likely to engage and be responsive. There is something about having more ‘skin in the game’ I think that possibly helps.

https://www.epicresearch.org/articles/many-patients-maintain-weight-loss-a-year-after-stopping-semaglutide-and-liraglutide#

We still have a lizard brain, fight of flight responses etc. these things would have kept us alive at one point but in the modern world hurt us. I doubt cavemen stopped eating after a nice salad. They would have eaten as much as they could while the food was there to stock up for future deprivation, it’s just that in the modern western world that doesn’t happen and our calories are more available from food because of processing. Think about how much effort a handful of nuts would have been to obtain compared to now.

We actually haven’t changed much over thousands of years as a species. Those of us who jump on food would have been very successful at staying alive a few thousand years ago. It’s not about intelligence it’s about instinct. We are after all animals.

Basically just says regaining weight is bad for you. Many of the effects described are also true if you lost weight due to other mechanisms, but I don’t think there is robust data to confirm whether it is more or less of a issue on glp-1s.

strength training exercise is really important for all women as we age, but maybe especially important for those also trying to lose weight

@BusyMummy001
I get the investment theory.
My DD is a trainee psychologist.
She told me to have some therapy when I committed to giving up alcohol. I paid.
I didn't expect to lose the amount of weight I have but I chased my wine with cheese and crisps. I don't eat either now. The therapist called my addiction self harm. A cry for help.

I don't really eat sugar but show me a large portion of curry and I'll do my best to scoff it. I am not really sure why I don't eat so much now. Age? I am a borderline wheelchair user so if I can get the last three stone off with the new injection I will give it a try. If I'm going in a chair I want to look fabulous. I also don't want the tiny carers trying to lift me.
I take my hat off to anyone trying to make changes.

It's a bit more than that.

But in an 18-month trial, patients receiving Ozempic lost about eight kilograms of fat and about five kilograms of muscle.

Which is not a madly impressive level of weight loss! Plus, as it is generally a greater proportion of muscle mass that is lost, a a higher proportion of muscle than people would with normal dieting measures, they end up lighter in weight, but fatter, in overall body composition. And then when the fat is regained, as it inevitably will be, it tends to go on around the middle, increasing metabolic disease risk.

Even if some other study now says otherwise, Peter Attia says almost every patient of his on Ozempic has lost muscle mass at a rate that alarms him. He now requests his patients have a DEXA scan, to measure the density of their bones, before taking the drug. Weaker muscles, means weaker bones. There was quite a lot of talk in this article about interconnected and flow-on effects, none of them good.

Ill continue to do my 10,000 steps a day and 3 x weekly weight training sessions at the gym so hopefully muscle loss won’t be too much of an issue.

It’s not licenced for use in children.

the faux concern on this thread is making me laugh. As if any of the fat phobes on here give a shit about muscle loss etc. it’s just another excuse to beat people with.

at least the person last week who posted she thought fat people should just be allowed to die out was honest.

Anyone who starts on these drugs do or should know the importance of trying to maintain muscle mass. Plus I am many stone overweight. That is mainly fat not muscle. So even if I do lose some muscle it will still
largely be fat I lose as I have much more of that.

It’s hilarious isn’t it? If they’re being entirely honest with themselves, most of the people on here ‘worrying’ about side effects and muscle loss don’t really give a shit about those things. They just don’t want fat people to have what they see as an easy way out. Fat people must suffer for their gluttonous sins.