To think nurseries are not safe for young babies

[Luxell934]

I've read about two very young babies dying in nurseries recently. One who choked after being given inappropriate food and one who was left to smother to death.

As a new mother it's absolutely terrifying to think about, I have also worked myself in nurseries for a number of years. It was a very well respected chain of nurseries and we were always understaffed and over ratio, I remember caring for up to 9 babies with just two staff and were told team leaders were "in the office, if needed" which basically meant get on with it and don't bother us. I also remember feeding 4/5 babies at a time. Looking back I was so young that I didn't speak up.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13438725/Nursery-nurse-Kate-Roughley-manslaughter-convicted.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqennjjllpqo

When my mum died, Dad had to put me in a day nursery ( several)
One was awful- but two were OK ( hence the moves)
one had a beautiful worker- I still remember her, so kind and calm. All the children gravitated to her.

I think we can’t ever reach equality without also supporting men to be parents. So that means not expecting men to default to the child’s mother, encouraging parents to work PT in the same way for men and women, letting them take paid parental leave, fetching sick kids and working flexibly. We definitely aren’t there yet but in an ideal world men and women would be able to share responsibility. That’s the only way to achieve a perfect balance and it would take a huge societal shift.

So should mothers be only mothers and not women and themselves as well? I will be sticking my son in nursery for a bit of me time. Judge away.

Happy mum/dad, happy children.

This. Oh my Lord. This. In SPADES. Having worked in nurseries, and having children of my own, your boredom is indeed utterly irrelevant. Utterly. You CHOSE to have humans who depend on you. You CHOSE that. They had no choice. "Nurseries are never in the best interests of the baby. They serve the parents needs and wants only". THIS!!!!!.

I would never, ever, put my baby in a nursery, having worked in a number of them. Never. I just wouldn't have more children, if it meant I would have to just stick them in with a bunch of people who truly didn't care about them. I've personally worked with many, many nursery workers, and very, very few genuinely care about children - it;s often teens/young people the nursery employs (because they're cheap), and who don't give a shit about your kid. They're on either minimum wage, or apprenticeship wages (£3.50 per hour last time I checked). You think they're going to truly make an effort with your kid? Nope. Or older women who have simply stayed tiredly in the industry, who are just done with it all because it's hard, endless work, at minimum wage.

I had to watch a little boy wet himself, soak his clothes, because the nursery simply couldn't afford enough staff to be in the room to help escort the littlest ones who needed help going to the toilet . They just had to let him wet himself. And the 18 year old staff member in charge just rolled her eyes and huffed in annoyance, because it was just yet another wetting incident she had to deal with, meanwhile the poor little boy was crying because he was cold and wet. (I reported this all to management, btw. Nothing was done, because "they can't afford more staff)). I saw a 17 year old worker slam a plate of pasta down becasue she was just done with having to look after them. I saw a little girl of only 7 months old just left to sob on her own, because the policy was "no picking up children, they need to learn independence". This was all in different nurseries, by the way ( I was a bank worker).

I reported, every time. And every time, nothing was done. I left childcare, because it just broke my heart.

If I was a young single mum again I would NOT be putting my child in a nursery. I'd sooner live on benefits.
I was lucky I had a wonderful childminder who treated DS like her own but you cannot count on that any more.

I’ve met my children, I know for a fact being a SAHM would be harder than going to work! What I dislike is the assumption is that from a lot of SAHM that working mums aren’t “proper” parents - there’s never a question that a working dad isn’t a proper parent but you only have to read this thread to see the absolute disdain a lot of people have for working mums.
If I’m being totally honest I don’t think being a SAHM is a job once the kids are at school, but if I could afford to I’d absolutely be doing it myself!

and it is only women.

Men don't get judged for becoming parents and continuing with their careers that they have worked hard for, or not ''raising'' their children or only spending weekends with them.

Do we really want to go back to days where there were very few women doctors, surgeons, STEM careers etc? Where women had little to no independence and were solely reliant on their husbands with little to no choice? Where they couldn't escape if they were facing abuse?

No thank you.

And be delighted when the 75-80% of teachers who are women all leave so their child's primary school is chronically understaffed.

I believe it's as safe as parents can afford , there make of that what you will .

Single Dads have no choice !
My dad was sole carer ( With day nurseries) after Mum died.

He eventually remarried.

So what you need to move towards is normalising men having a greater role in childrearing rather than deferring from a woman to a paid provider. IMO that is the solution.

But cot deaths are one of the sort of death that babies sufffer at home, so I immediately thought of my friend. A gut reaction, so I am sorry, did not mean to upset.

I cried at that story of the little girl. Why bother work in a nursery. I'm in the process of becoming a nanny because I love children, if cries or "diva behaviour" annoy you leave go work In McDonald's
I'm sure she showed signs which weren't picked up people like her always do

I'm currently a sahp. For reasons. I have also worked full time as a parent, and it simply didn't work for us.

I have been sneered at and looked down on for this choice, by some other mothers (no men, interestingly), but I've gone through too much horror and abuse in my childhood and life to care.

I also have friends who have no choice but to work - no support. Zero. No "neighbours", no family friends, no spouses etc. I've seen what they've gone through. I have zero judgement on that. I will always be here to helo with childacre for them if I can. What I judge are those who choose to have kids who are well-off - doctors etc, and just stick them into care because of their careers. I've worked in nurseries and seen this time and time again and simply could never understand, out side of "mistake" pregnancies", why they make an active decision to get pregnant when their decision is to simply stick the baby into a nursery as soon as, from 6am until 7pm at night, sometimes 6 days a week (yes, one of the hospital nuseries I worked in was open for that time) I simple......cannot understad that decision making.

But this is just silly and one sided. Having a career that you continually progress in can have significant benefits for your children. Household income is one of the clearest predictors of children's outcomes.

Absolutely.
I think any mum who is thinking about putting her baby in a nursery should have first worked in a few before having children. I 100% guarantee you would never put your baby in one day after day if you had worked in a few.

Read up on stories of kids killed by their parents and then come back and tell me that having a good mental health isn't important to a parent.

What about parents who don't have family nearby? You use childcare. If it keeps a warm roof over the head of that baby then nursery is good for him.

Good Nannies are worth their weight in gold.
All the Nannies I know of absolutely love children.
But obviously a Nanny is significantly more expensive- so tend to be obvious hired by high earners.

The ratios are often very loosely applied. A friend removed their toddler from nursery when they found out that they were being creative with the truth. The administrator left so they borrowed a member of staff pretty much full time from the toddler room. Then when a nursery nurse left they dragged the woman who worked in the kitchen in to cover breaks and counted her in the ratios. That's before any staff rung in sick.

But that’s skewed because many houses on higher incomes will generally have had their children at home more under age 5.

It is nothing like how my DS' nursery is at all. Staff turnover is low, ratios are excellent for the baby room especially and he certainly doesn't spend all day staring at the same walls.

There is 1 teenager who is there once a week because she's at College the rest of the week. No other teenagers in sight.

It isn't a new nursery either.

They aren't strangers, DS' old keyworker is now our babysitter and part of our family. He also has a wonderful bond with his current keyworker now that he's in the toddler room.

Of course some nurseries are poor, as are some childminders and some parents. But some nurseries are also excellent.

If you can’t keep a warm roof without giving your baby to strangers- don’t have a baby!! For goodness sake. We don’t all get to the age of 30 automatically become pregnant.
There are choices. Why are people so fucking entitled and selfish.

Agree entirely, and get rid of the culture of presenteeism and ' networking' outside of work that excludes mothers. Workers should be seen, both men and women, as people outside of work. It would benefit men too, that instead of being expected to work long hours because they didn't have to donthe school run, or go to parents evenings or sports days or be home to collect children from nursery, it was expected that they could ask for those things without being penalised. Do they get accused of not being proper parents when they never see their child during the week and never turn up to any of their school stuff?

It's not skewed, it's the clearest marker of outcomes. Very simple.

How else do you keep a roof over your head without working?