Comparing my mother to my mother in law re grandkids - where do you stand ?

[lemonylemonade]

My MIL adores her grandkids. My mother also adores her grandkids. My mum has 4 grandkids- 2 are my kids and my brother has 2 as well.

My MIL only had my 2, they're the first grandkids. In my family my kids are the younger grandkids.

Anyway, I don't love my MIL, we've had a lot of issues over the years, but we tolerate each other for the sake of the family.

My mom also occasionally has less obvious issues with my SIL ( mother of the older grandkids ). It's not as obvious ' beef ' as I have with my MIL. My MIL and I are both hot heads and end up having fights. My SIL is not like that, if my mum has done something wrong, she just won't invite her over or says they're busy when my mum wants to come over. She gives her the cold shoulder. I give my MIL the cold shoulder a lot as well, in the sense that I don't overly engage with her ever, as I know we will annoy each other. I'm polite, but I don't seek her out.

In any case, my Mum really backs off seeing the grandkids when she senses that my SIL is being a bit cold and doesn't want her around. My mum gets offended and thinks she doesn't need to stoop and beg my SIL to see the grandkids. So she backs off too. Sometimes she'll go quite a while without seeing them, until whatever has blown over.

My MIL would NEVER do that. She doesn't care. Her relationship with her grandkids is really important to her and she feels she has a right to see them. She would never feel like she was begging me, when I give her the cold shoulder. It's not about me, or her stooping down to beg me to see the grandkids. She feels entitled to see them and doesn't have the same shame around it. She would never let a long time pass, she would just keep pushing until she gets to see them.

I sometimes advise my mum to go above her own pride, when she wants to see her grandkids. I don't think she should be pushy, but if she really loves her grandkids and wants to see them, she should put her pride to one side and ask if everything is ok with SIL and try to sort out any issue. But she has too much pride to do that.

What does everyone think ?

Using children as a reward/punishment is pathetic. Cold shouldering jesus are you all still at school?

What? This all sounds really immature.
My MIL didn't like my late husband's first wife. She's a 'hands off' grandmother at the best of times but the result was she had very little to do with her first two grandchildren. My DH said he wished he had done more about it - taken them to her more often, but he didn't. Fast forward a decade she wasn't even invited to one of their weddings.
What about the son then? Can't he take the grandkids to see his mother if she had issues with his wife and vice versa?

If it comes up and bro and sis in law tell me what mum has done, I just kind of agree and say that she also does the same to me and I've tried talking to her and she just can't stop doing it.

Of course she can stop doing it. She just chooses not to.

Does she behave like this in front of your children as well? If she doesn't do it now and your children are quite young (I don't think you say how old they are) you should be aware that she is quite likely to start in the future when they stop being quite so cute and amenable.

I find your black and white thinking that your MIL is "bad" whilst accepting that your mum is equally bad but that's ok to be quite baffling.

TBH you all sound a bit childish and immature!

my mil was in my life for 28 years and we never had an argument, she may have said things I didn’t agree with or didn’t think were tight but I let dh deal with it, it’s his mum, same as I deal with my mum rather than dh.

isn’t that how most families work.

of mil wanted to see the grandchildren she would message dh and if my mum wanted to see them she would message me.

That's just not true at all, once again.

I have no black and white thinking, my mum annoys me a lot as well and I argue with her a fair bit- but she's MY MUM and she doesn't actually hurl personal insults at me, which my MIL has done- on several occasions.

It's a different dynamic.

I don't know where you get this all from as I've clearly stated that I don't agree with my mums behaviour. But she is my mum. I'm not going to cut her out of my life.

Yes I am concerned what will happen when my kids grow up.

This thread is not supposed to be some sort of defence of my mum and bashing of my MIL. They're different things and they have different ( but sometimes similar ) behaviours they exhibit towards their DIL's.

My mother in law has called me crazy, she's gone through my stuff to find stuff she was convinced I had thrown away, she called me massive when pregnant and has commented on my weight - several times. She's slagged off members of my close family for being unattractive / arrogant / boring. She has questioned my parenting more than once, even telling me that I can't hold my baby properly and I'm unhygienic for putting my baby on a bed. There are so many things she's said and done to upset me and every time I have said that I am upset, she has gaslighted me and told me I am crazy / too sensitive etc. I have SO many more examples too. She even made fun of my career in front of my kids ! ' oh maybe you kids will become doctors, unlike your parents who didn't manage '. She's really nasty.

The fact I still see this woman is a miracle. But you're hell bent of making me the arsehole here, but I won't have it. I know the truth of how things have been.

Classic Mumsnet pile on !

When my kids were small I put up with all sorts of behaviour from neighbours, teachers, relatives and friends. I modelled respect and good behaviour and we muddled through. That's what you do.

The older the kids got the more I let the facade drop. So by sixth form, a rubbish teacher was referred to as rubbish but the goal was to get the qualification, the teacher is just a gatekeeper, to be discarded afterwards.

The kids show a basic level of respect to all the grand parents but when my dad died and my mum was blathering on about this living saint that had passed on it was hard. I blamed COVID when I said the kids didn't have much of a relationship with him. She was thrown by this but the honest answer was he didn't see them as individuals, made no effort with them was just another distant named man in their lives.

I don't see my parenting role as keeping grandparents on pedestals for teen kids.

My kids, as teens, can probably rank the grandparents in terms of who actually had been constant and interested through their lives and what I think or throwing excessive presents or Facebook posts doesn't factor in.

I don't think 8/9 year olds should be slagging off grandparents, personally.

I think 8/9 year olds should be free to call out bad behaviour and not pretend it doesn't exist.

You could run into trouble having a rule saying that grandparents can’t be criticised. If your children were babysit and say smacked, wouldn’t you want to know? If they heard your mum slag off SIL/brother/you then surely it’s ok to call it out? If every family had the don’t slag off grandparents rule then how much abuse would be hidden ? If your MIL said that your child had a fat arse when pregnant, wouldn’t you think that it’s ok to slag her off?

It’s interesting that all of the drama is with the women. Your brother is very reasonable to stick up for his wife and presumably your husband was your sounding board when his mum was out of order. Maybe it’s time for you and SIL to use your husbands to deal with their mums.

In the case of your mum, there’s an established pattern of bad behaviour- cooling off period so she should be using the cooling off period to reflect on her behaviour and apologise. Do you think she can’t see what she’s doing wrong or won’t accept that she’s done something wrong ? What was your mum’s mum and MIL like ? Is she repeating their behaviour ?

While it’s good that you’ve worked out how to minimise conflict with MIL, I think that you and SIL have missed a trick by not using the men to reduce the stress of dealing with your respective MILs.

You’ve defended your mum when her behaviour sounds pretty awful tbh. I think that your acceptance of your mum’s behaviour emboldens her and makes her feel like the wronged one. ( I guess that this attitude ties in with the don’t slag off grandparents thing) It does the children harm to hear their grandmother talking to the parents the way that she does. Grandparents can bring so much joy and improve children’s lives but it sounds like your mum is not such a positive influence. I suspect that SIL goes through cooling off periods because she sees your mum unreceptive when her h tells your mum off. Your mum is lucky to be invited back each time tbh.

@redskydarknight that's different to slagging off grandparents / joining in making fun with adults about grandparents.

You risk your children accepting being treated like a doormat and taken advantage of if they can’t call out bad behaviour.

I don't know how I've given the impression that I've protected my mum ? Or defended her ?

I didn't mean to give that impression at all.

@SonicTheHodgeheg calling out bad behaviour is different to slagging off though.

If my child comes and says ' grandma said XYZ' that's different in partaking in an adult conversation that's completely slating grandma. Like if brother makes fun of grandmas car or how she wears her hair or whatever - the kids shouldn't hear that kind of thing or be allowed to take part. It's just below standard and I don't want my kids doing that.

I agree that grandma’s car is crap (I assume not unsafe) is very different to complaining that every car honked when grandma was driving which is a different kind of slagging off.

We backed away from my husband's siblings when our kids were small to teen.
One lot, were on the extreme screen side, ignored by parents, dumped on grand parents.
The other lot were sad beige children and I couldn't deal with my SIL's obsession with obtaining vast quantities of organic cotton and wooden toys. Why have one Noah's ark when you could have six.

We've walked out own path. Suggest you cut down on the extended family time. I have no regrets and most importantly, I've never heard my kids wishing they'd spent more time with the 'attention seeking' or 'gameboy' cousins.

In your previous post you said the children were picking up on their parents discussing what your mum had done.
Not making random negative comments.

OP - you're getting defensive, but a lot of us have grown up in these toxic family situations and appreciate it's hard to see it when you are in the middle of it.

Go back and read your own posts (no one else's) and see what you would think if this was a friend telling you about their life.

It's clear that your MIL has behaved awfully but rather than setting boundaries you bend over backwards to let her see the children whenever she wants. This sounds like a learnt behaviour -you've learnt as part of your own upbringing to keep the peace ("to swallow your pride" as you describe it) rather than asserting yourself.

The fact your mum doesn't shout hostile abuse at you does not make her behaviour any better. You admit that she behaves badly, and that she won't change, but you are focussing on your DB and SIL's behaviour rather than hers.
"Because she's my mum" is not a good enough reason to put up with things. It's even less of a good reason if you have young children to protect.

@redskydarknight it's both really.

My brother often calls mum dim behind her back and the kids laugh and join. I don't like it much. It's kind of a joke and kind of not.

Anyway I don't mean to get defensive and appreciate your comment.

I'm not really sure what to do. I've tried with the best intentions to explain SIL and Bro's and my own feelings to my mums attitude but she's always offended, basically.

I don't have any issues with my bro or SIL ( aside from the slagging off grandparents with the kids bit ). But I would never say anything about it. I don't ever argue with brother and SIL and want it to stay that way. But I refuse to laugh or join in when they call my mum dim or stupid in front of me and I will not allow my children to do it.

Regarding MIL, she'll keep pushing on really, regardless of whether I invite her or not. So I just continue to avoid conflict and if something does come up, I'll get my H to deal with it. I don't think it's right to deny mil seeing the kids, even though she's been awful to me. Of course if you ask her, I've been awful to her.

@redskydarknight sorry to have seemed defensive.

I just feel like SO many commenters have got it completely wrong. Possibly because of how I have phrased things.
Some people assuming I'm angry with SIL or agree with my mum but not my MIL or that I don't let MIL see my kids etc etc etc. it's just been a barrage of things that are not true.

What do your children get out of seeing either grandmother? What positives and what negatives? Really look at what you are teaching your children about accepting bad behaviour and not having boundaries

My kids adore both grandmothers.

My kids are small. Under 5.

I'm sure your dc do adore both grandmother's but I was asking to get you to really think about things. Is the relationship really a healthy one for your dc as it stands. Is it good to witness just accepting being treated badly, do you want that to be their normal?

Does your brother call his mum dim because he’s trying to explain away her mean comments and lighten the mood ? Are her mean comments said in front of the kids or ever directed to the kids?

At the end of the day if she refuses to accept SIL/brother’s reactions to what she says then you can’t change her. I’m ND so don’t always understand the power of my words but if someone said that they didn’t like what they heard then I’d be more mindful of not repeating the same mistake as I want to get along with people. Your mum seems to only care about getting her own way and not even consider the possibility that she could be wrong. You can’t change an adult - they have to want to change and some adults thrive on drama and prefer it to calm.

Just about sums it up.

Another thing OP- this isn’t your issue to fix. Your mother chooses the words that come out of her mouth and refuses to apologise or change her behaviour despite the consequences so you should leave her to it. If she is annoying you with this topic then tell her that she has the power to change things and not to discuss it with you any more. She’s a grown woman who is your mother and shouldn’t be expecting you to mother her.

You didn't answer what your brother is saying to the kids when your mum criticises him, but as he's calling her "dim and stupid" then "blowing up", I'm guessing he is very much a problem in this situation. Still, not your circus so stay out of it.