To not take what a 5 year old says that seriously?

[Kusama]

I don't know how seriously to take my 5 year old.

My DH (DS dad) is hands on dad but also quite grumpy. He looks exasperated a lot of the time. He doesnt shout all that much but he doss have a pissed off vibe a lot. Sometimes he really loses his temper but not often. He is also very into rough play, so lots of throwing DS around which I find annoying as the last thing DS needs is being wound up. I think it's unfair on DS as he then gets told off for being hyper.

So my question. DS has started saying things like

"Can dad not live here anymore" "daddy is scary and naughty man" "I only love mummy" and just now after school DS heard a noise and said "oh no, is that daddy"

Pls don't jump down my throat but kids say all kinds of stuff dont they? DS also often tells me how he doesnt like so and so kid from school or some teacher is mean and that stuff I listen to him but don't obviously do anything about it!

Is DS saying stuff about DH unusual? I've told H and he seems quite relaxed/almost happy about it.

He sounds like a fucking horrendous malevolent presence to be around. It is clearly affecting your child. Don’t underestimate how long it will have been affecting them either, it’s only now they’ve plucked up the courage to say something. 💔

I didn’t really like my dad being around when I was young (maybe 8+). It as much more relaxed without him around and no arguments etc. We had a complicated relationship.
I was a bit older than 5 though.
Have you asked him why he doesn’t want daddy around? I agree with others there is ‘something’ he’s not liking about his dad atm so you need to find out what it is.

I'm not saying this is the same but my then 4 year old daughter started acting like this around her father and half brother, totally out the blue as she was very close to this brother before. Unfortunately a couple of weeks later it came out that he had touched her inappropriately and my ex had shouted and raved at them both to "fix" it and make sure our daughter didn't tell me. He was also known to be really vocally aggressive with a volatile temper. We left after I found out about what happened and it's been years but I never force the kids to see him if he has had an outburst on their previous visit and they don't feel comfortable. I don't want them thinking it's normal or acceptable behaviour. Are you happy living in that atmosphere?

I mean it’s not ideal but I think this is a bit…dramatic.

He sounds depressed, stressed and overwhelmed more than anything else.

Not everyone is/can be sunshine and rainbows all the time. Life is fucking hard.

Wow. No not normal, they should absolutely adore each other at his age tbh.

A doctor said something to me once that stuck with me.
My DD was complaining of some pains she had over time with no obvious cause. After a series of questions (and multiple visits/tests) he was no closer to figuring it out. Of course it came up that was she perhaps faking it? Was she trying to avoid something or someone at school? Just seeking attention? Then he said to me privately that when a child says something the assumption should be that the pain (or feelings in your case) are real, even if one cannot see or understand why. Often a child will say 'that hurts' but a grown up will say 'no it doesn't', partly because the same thing might not hurt THEM. A child's feelings, physical and emotional, are as valid as an adult's.
My point is that this is not normal and you should observe their relationship and how your husband is treating your son closely. Plus how he treats you.
By the way, after years of investigating it turns out my DD has Multiple Sclerosis, diagnosed finally at 17.

He’s a nasty, negative energy in your lives and your 5 year old has fully picked up on it. It will be hugely influencing his developing brain, as well as teaching him that this is acceptable male behaviour. And you’ve done nothing all thread but minimise it op, with ‘but but but’ and irrelevant comparisons such as what he says about school.

Home is meant to be a safe haven from the rest of the world. So if what he’s saying is so much worse than tattle about school, it means he is not seeing his home as a happy environment. And why should he, I’m assuming what you’re telling us is only part of your husband’s behaviour and who on earth would want to live like that, never mind a child?

He sounds depressed, stressed and overwhelmed more than anything else.

Hes also a parent, so with all due respect tough shit if he’s all those things. He should seek adequate support and keeps he’s stomping around and swearing to himself. And this also seems to be just excusing shitty male behaviour, if it was mum acting like the is for whatever reason, to the point their child was actively mentioning how miserable it was making them, MN would be collectively saying how she needed to sort herself out asap.

Op has said he tells her he hates her when he doesn't get his way, but everyone seems to be ignoring that !

I would speak to your dh BUT in the context that he does it to other people too, I would speak to your ds about his choice of words when expressing himself.

Many mums do act like this. Haven’t you ever seen them stomping their way round asda and snarling at their kids ti shut up?

I have. I would say a supermarket environment is not fully comparable, especially if it’s only mum that does the shopping and has to take all her kids out with her whilst also thinking what she needs for the week, what dinners to make and the budget whilst primary age kids are whinging to put every haribo pack and box of Cornettos in the trolley then whinging how bored they are. No it’s not great either, but we’re talking about the home environment here, and what the 5 year old himself has said. If it’s got to the point of the child verbalising how unhappy he is then it’s gone beyond some usual adult stress seeping over into every day life.

Edit: posted too soon.

I don't think it's a normal reaction to a parent either. Definitely not the same as saying they hate someone in their class. Kids sometimes say they don't like a parent, or even that they hate them, but that is generally in the heat of the moment and a reaction to them not getting their own way or during a meltdown. Your son sounds like he is anticipating something bad happening - at least something that he feels is bad. Perhaps he's worried about the rough play? Perhaps your husband makes him feel on edge with his bad temperedness? Perhaps it's something else? A child's default position is usually to love and want to spend time with their parents.

I am taking it seriously. That's why i posted here to get info from other mums of small children to see how ususual it is. Of course i listen to him, but he says other extreme stuff about how much he hates his siblings and so on - but i get the context of what he is saying makes it different to that. He also talks about other kids being mean to him. I have emailed the form teacher to set up a meeting to talk to her about it all.

And yes mums (and dads) do shout at their kids in public. I don't want that for my kids either. i would say though that the difference is that my H has a general demenour to being unhappy - and it does make the atmosphere hard at home.

i will leave if i have to and it doesnt get better. i will always pick my kids over my husband. not that leaving will protect my kids from their father's anger necessarily.

TheFormidableMrsC · Yesterday 16:09
I would be very concerned if my child was frightened of his father and you're trying to minimise it. It's not normal, no.”

This.
Listen to your child.

It depends on whether you think your son is actually scared of your DH, or just playing at being scared.

I’ve always been the “preferred parent”, and DH is a bit stricter than me (meaning he tells him to stop doing things sooner than I do, no shouting or actual punishments). DS went through a phase of saying very dramatically “oh no, daddy’s home! Am I going to get grounded?” aged about 5, copied from various tv shows he was watching - he didn’t even know what grounded meant. I didn’t take that seriously, because it wasn’t serious. DS may not like being told to stop jumping on the sofa, but it isn’t harmful to him.

It sounds like you are less confident that your DH’s interactions with DS are benign. It’s that I’d be bringing up with DH.

I've not RTFT but just to give you a bit of reassurance as the comments I have read all say that it's not normal. It may not be normal in that it might not be common for children to say, but I don't think it's the end of the world. My dad was quite similar to your DH from the sounds of it, I still remember being quite scared of him as a young child and my sister has said the same. As we grew older I actually became closer to my dad than my mum, in my teenage years he was often the one I would go to to talk to over her. So yes, while he was a bit grumpy and that seemed scary as a child (I do also have lots of nice childhood memories of him too though, I loved him rough playing with us and the games he would play with us) as I got older it didn't affect our relationship at all. We are still very close, he has definitely mellowed out as well and although he still has his moments, you wouldn't describe him as grumpy.

This is a horrible atmosphere for your two children to be living with. Your husband's behaviour is not normal or acceptable.

However, I'm not sure what you expect your son's teacher to do about it. This is very much outside of her job description. You are the one who needs to make difficult decisions and take decisive action. If you need support with this, Women's Aid or even Social Services would be a better resource than a Reception teacher.

Being on your son’s side in your own head isn’t much use to your son though, the point is, are you able and willing to stand up to your husband on his behalf?

OP, what do you want?

You've posted on here for opinions, the collective opinion is that this is not normal for a child to vocalise this constantly about a parent.

Yet you keep making excuses by saying DS makes throwaway comments about school friends etc. Those throwaway comments are normal. Yet you acknowledge yourself that want he says about his dad is concerning. The comments about Dad is not normal.

There is something really odd going on. The rough play sounds too bloody rough, yes I know its normal and an important part of child development with their dad, but does DS actually enjoy it? Especially if he also gets told off for being hyper- something that his dad has caused.

Your DH refuses to acknowledge anything you say. Is he one of those people that really doesn't believe that children have feelings and should be taken seriously? His almost happy reaction to you telling him what your DS has said is bizarre- is he on some sort of power trip? I don't know any decent parent who would show happiness about their child not liking them/being scared of them.

Children get fobbed off so much by the people that are meant to care for them. Listen to your son, watch their interactions carefully. Does this seem to happen more if they're left alone together? Why is daddy bad or naughty?

You need to carefully ask him what he means or to show you with toys (roleplay) why daddy is mean, and do it when your son brings up the subject. When he mentions it, that is when he is ready to speak. You might find it difficult to get him to open up if you randomly ask him when he's busy doing something else.

One example is my friends husband. He was a miserable twat and their DSs dappeared close to him (he was their dad). They were happy when he came home from work and didnt seem overlly scared of him.Her eldest DS had started saying similar things as yours, but never opened up. Luckily she felt that something was off and kicked him out. About 6 months after they split my friend found out that when she was at work he shouted and screamed at them all the time for the slightest inconvenience, and they were being locked in a cupboard for a few hours when he was being 'naughty'. Most of the abuse was emotional. Turns out he had scared them into saying silent about it. I dont think he had always been like that with them, it slowly built up until he became some sick twisted person that enjoyed the power over his kids. They were 4 and 6.

I think it is unusual. DH regularly plays rough/chasing/monster games with DC and they shriek and run around in apparent terror but giggling their heads off and come back asking for more - they have never ever called him scary and DS (5) only calls DH naughty if DH does something that DS doesn't like e.g. takes away a toy that DS was being inappropriate with, if DS is in a bad mood and DH brings the wrong colour plate or something, or if DH ever accidentally hurts them (which he would immediately apologise for and check they are OK) - I think all this is fairly appropriate meaning of the word "naughty" for a 5yo (the plate thing is a bit age delayed but that's DS, not universal).

Playing rough can be fun and appropriate and helpful but DH should be able to rein it in before DS is getting overly hyped up.

The overall attitude/layer of anger and general grumpiness and irritability does sound a bit scary/intimidating. Do you find you're walking on eggshells not to set him off, or think the DC might be?

In terms of protecting them (or not) from his anger if you were to split up, I think this is a bit of a fallacy in that we sort of kid ourselves oh we can step in and prevent anything really awful from happening, or he's got to have a bit of a filter on himself because I'm there. But in reality if a child is feeling unsafe then that is a bit like living with a smoker - it doesn't matter how much non-smoke you're breathing out near the smoker, they are still being exposed to the smoke. So there is a benefit IMO of them having the experience of at least one home which is safe, always, rather than having that underlying threat at home all the time.

I don't say this to mean you need to lawyer up/divorce immediately - but I do think it's important to note that safety is considered one of the three key things that children need from their parents for healthy attachment - experiencing threat from a parental figure has some quite serious potential consequences, although this is more associated with a parent who is violent or unpredictable or regularly flies into rages. I don't know whether this would meet that threshold, but the fact your DS calls him scary would worry me and it definitely warrants a discussion/wake up call for DH.

Do you think he is depressed/stressed/struggling with mental health in any way? Would he be open to looking at that? What if you approached it as a concern about him, for his wellbeing primarily rather than the affect on DS - even though this is also a concern, I feel like leading with DS would be more likely to provoke defensiveness whereas if you present as being concerned about DH primarily and then express worry about the effect on DS as more of a side point or supporting factor, then he might be more open to considering it.

The other thing is that children do learn a lot from what they see so I wonder if your DS saying he "hates" you/other children when he feels aggrieved by something is a sort of learned aggression response? I know that emotionally aggressive outbursts can be normal at 5 (god knows, we've been through this too) so could just be totally normal 5yo emotional immaturity, but it's just probably something to keep an eye on in the context of other things.

At five I used to say similar things about my mum. She was grumpy and aggressive in a similar way to your ‘DH’. When I was a little older I would ask if my parents could get divorced and could I please live with my dad. My relationship with my mother set the tone for the whole of my life, always being nervous, insecure and having little self-worth. Please don’t let this happen to you little ones.

I was just thinking exactly this.

I am unsure as to why you think having a meeting with the teacher will help?

Would DH be open to speaking to someone professional? I mean if his attitude stems from a depression / anger problem, maybe dealing with that would be the right first step?

i know the teacher can't do anything exactly. but i've read lots of advice on other threads where things are going wrong at home - that they tell the OP to tell the school - if he is saying these things at home he may be saying them at school. H is not going to change, I will keep talking to him but he is v resistant. If i need to leave, which i think maybe i do after reading this thread and reflecting on how things are, i need the school to be informed. that is all i mean.

When they say to tell the school that's to make them aware of anything happening in the child's life that may cause unusual or difficult behaviour and the teacher knowing why is important.

In this case, yes you can tell her, but this isn't something like letting them know a parent is ill or a pet has died etc. She can't do anything to help you with your husband, and she will be obliged to report this as a safeguarding concern immediately.

It is probably helpful for her to know but you need to take action yourself. For all the reasons already outlined. No these are not normal comments and you need to take it very seriously. If you genuinely don't think there is any chance of DH changing you need to seriously look at your options for leaving.