to think that many people have totally unrealistic expectations of parenting and life in general

[emkana]

I have a few friends who struggle with the stresses and tiredness that parenting brings with it and with the demands of work etc., and I can understand that and can empathize. Their respective partners do their bit but could probably do more, this is definitely something that should be addressed and sorted, no argument there. BUT what I find a bit exasperating at times is the attitude they seem to have that they should have more help and support from other sources, like friends and family, that they have a right to time off, to (the dreaded word) "me time". At the end of the day children are the parents' responsibility aren't they? And where does all this expectation of "me-time" (that is also heavily talked about in the meedja I feel) come from anyway? I often think of my grandmother in that context, who had four children under seven in 1945, her husband was imprisoned as a PoW, she had no money coming in... I wonder what her reaction would have been if somebody had explained the concept of "me-time" to her. Of course we all do need breaks at times, but things have gone too far I feel.

(sits back and prepares for the flack)

But surely by not moaning about it and pretending we're all coping so bloody marvelously thank you very much, we're all perpetuating some false image about parenthood that makes people feel like giant failures.

Surely people are allowed to question their choices, moan about difficulties and generally feel a bit sorry for themselves now and again. I'd hate to have fair weather friends that are not only, not willing to listen to your grumbles occasionally, but also fail to admit their lives are far from perfect. It's false, life isn't that perfect and the ?your bed, lay in? it attitude is so, well, frigid.

I think its much easier being in only one place than dividing your time in two places that are miles apart, working part time, and mumming part time.

My Nan was somewhat pragmatic about grabbing her 'me time', she had no qualms about chucking her kids out to play all day. In fact, she did it with us dgcs as well, I regularly remember being thrown out of her house and told not to come back til tea time. She would also not think twice about leaving the kids home alone in the evenings while she went out to Bingo.

Don't think many of us would do that these days

and yes, of course there is always someone worse off but our time our lives are all we can trully measure ourselves by. You don't need to look back generations to find instances of worseoffmanship.

I don't know about 'me-time' but I do like time to myself when I don't have to interact with anyone else, and can just read a book (or spend time on the computer....)

of course if I can't get it that's tough luck

but I do think all adults need and benefit from time to do things they enjoy, whatever they may be-it recharges the batteries and gives you more energy for the family-type stuff

You are right gingerninja we are all entitled to have a moan sometimes. What gets me though is when people moan that they have it so much harder because they have children or because they have 2 or 3 children or whatever.

In reality, no one's really entitled to jack diddly squat, though.

'It's a harsh truth, but that's mostly the way of things, even under the best of circumstances.' (Charles Frazier, 'Cold Mountain')

To the OP, I do sympathise with the kind of motherhood your grandmother, and probably many of our grandmothers had. My grandmother had my mum on her own, travelled to Singapore by boat (8 weeks) to go and live with my grandfather when my mum was 9 months old - that was the first time my grandfather saw my mum - at 9 months old !!!!!!!!!!

Me time wasn't available then but is it so wrong to take it now - I am very lucky, I get "me time", I love being a mum but i love having a litle time to myself. I don't think it's too much to ask for.

we live in different times now though
but I do think we are a bit soft these days in this country
I wonder how we'd cope with war and rationing etc
but thank god we don't have to!

I think it depends some people have family and friends to rely on. Some people's kids are more robust and don't get ill so don't present the challenge of working and looking after a sick child, or they don't work so it's not a problem. My partner and I haven't had a night out together in 2 years but I don't complain. But I can understand people who do. And I can certainly understand mums who work and have young children and struggle with the relentless schedule.

I'm going for a spa day in a few weeks and I can't wait.

And my DH is very much looking forward to spending a whole day alone with his son.

Perhaps if we're going to moan about anything it should be about the partners the OP mention who perhaps are blind to the concept of mothers having a day off.

Don't see why I should never do anything fun just because somebody's grandmother didn't.

I think mostly people are two tired trying to do it all and of course need to bloody rest once in a while. What's so bad about that?

Yeah last year I had a luxury night in a hotel planned and a babysitter lined up - my dd was rushed to hospital so I had to cancel and lost the booking money ...

My spa weekend with the girls was cancelled cos dp got gasteroenteritis ... my inlaws wont babysit but hey I'm not bitter

If the pace was a little slower you wouldn't need time out really.

I resent my mother a little for not helping me with my children because I did so fucking much for her when my bro and sis were still small. She went out 3 times a week when I was 14, with my dad. She had a part time eveneing job and I bore the brunt of that too. but that last time she cared for ds1 was while I was having ds2 2 years ago.

So yes, I do feel like I 'deserve' some me time. I know I chose to have them - but then, she chose to have my brother and sister, and she made me help her a lot, and I feel she should not have put the family card in her back pocket so nobody could play it when she had finished playing it.

aside from the fact that most of us don't live in the same places as extended family for babysitting purposes, most of us have led a fuller life before having children that we aren't prepared to leave behind..

lots of people of my Mums generation lived with their parents before getting married and having children, where as these days most people live independantly before getting married and or having children.

most of our friends had children before we did so I feel that Dh and I had a clear vision about how much children would effect our lives.. we weren't far off... less international travel... less going out .. lots and lots of laughter.. and bags the size of suitcases under our eyes for the first 12 months..

However, we are also quite trusting with our boys.. we had no hesitation about letting our neighbour look after the boys so we can go out... Lots of our friends will only trust family to babysit so they end up going 6 months between going out together and they moan about it.

I diagree with Emkana. Me time is o.k. with me.
It is imppossible to compare the mums of todays needds with those mums of previous generations.
Today I am mumsnetting ( pm only), but previously, as miggsie said my mum may have chosen to garden, whilst we went off all day in the summer hols. Plus she wasn't compelled to entertain and transport to zillions of kids clubs.

One of the problems is that modern media (inc internet) has made people feel that if they haven't travelled the Earth/don't look amazing/done own the fab house etc then they somehow haven't lived their life fully. It's as if you fail if you don't cram as much in as possible.

I think the difference is that our grandmothers just saw life as something you got on with. The hardship was expected and you all coped with it together as part of a community giving each other support and friendship.

For me the isolation of having my first baby was devastating. It wasn't as simple as wanting 'me time' it was more that everything I knew had changed; My body, my career, my marriage. I knew nobody else with a baby and I lived nowhere near either my mother or my MIL. I guess one of the differences nowadays is that women are far more naive to these changes.

Time to oneself is very important. I'm sure it was equally important 50yrs ago and I'm sure that just as many women took it as now. The difference may be the guilt.

Oh and, if you can't moan to your girlfriends even if you are being unreasonable then what's the world coming to?

I think in our grandmother's day there was no concept of me time, because you were too busy surviving. Life was much harder, but also simpler IYKWIM.

Being exhausted coping with involved parenting with playdates, baby yoga, ballet lessons, juggling career/job with a DH who often works miles away is the modern exhaustion. DH's grandmother brought up eight kids single handedly ranging in ages from twins of 8 months (!!) to the eldest who was 10, when her husband died in 1953. All their family lived in Ireland and she did it alone. I feel faint just thinking about it!

the woman who owns and runs my dd's nursery has 6 kids is on her own and has a child with db I think women cope just as well and are just as resourceful. It's the time pressures of trying to be in two places at once I find the hardest - like now am thinking of cutting loose, tying up loosends for the weekend to get dd, and oh yeah ran out of nappies so need to swing by a smarket en route ... then cook tea, then bath her and then bedtime and then I might just get a some time..

My grandma looked after my aunts twins so she could go to college. I Wish to god I had just a fraction of the support she gave her family. I spent all my summer holidays with her too, and she regularly babysat.

same at the other end of the scale with people not looking after their parents and shoving them in a home.. that'll be us!

I agree when peeps have spoken about the isolation about being a new mum. DD is 4 months old, i moved to be with DP when i found out i was pregnant and have found it VERY hard. My parents live far away and when i cry down the phone to my mum, she does say it was different 30 years ago. She had extended family around her who helped her out most days of the week.

I have tried and continue to try to make friends but you don't make friends overnight,it takes time. As a new mum i suprise myself that i haven't got PND - must be all that pushing the buggy i do!

Colditz- I feel the same as you, except I was babysitting from the age of 5, and told I was "responsible" for my younger 4 siblings. It wasn't until I was in my 20s that it occurred to me to tell my parents to f*ck off with the responsible line.

I can't seem to feel any kind of filial respect for either of my parents, particularly since they still refuse to help me and instead expect the reverse. I just think of them as a bit of a burden in the making... In an ideal world, it would be lovely to be able to call upon them, but in my real world, I know it would cause more problems than it would solve.