to think that many people have totally unrealistic expectations of parenting and life in general

[emkana]

I have a few friends who struggle with the stresses and tiredness that parenting brings with it and with the demands of work etc., and I can understand that and can empathize. Their respective partners do their bit but could probably do more, this is definitely something that should be addressed and sorted, no argument there. BUT what I find a bit exasperating at times is the attitude they seem to have that they should have more help and support from other sources, like friends and family, that they have a right to time off, to (the dreaded word) "me time". At the end of the day children are the parents' responsibility aren't they? And where does all this expectation of "me-time" (that is also heavily talked about in the meedja I feel) come from anyway? I often think of my grandmother in that context, who had four children under seven in 1945, her husband was imprisoned as a PoW, she had no money coming in... I wonder what her reaction would have been if somebody had explained the concept of "me-time" to her. Of course we all do need breaks at times, but things have gone too far I feel.

(sits back and prepares for the flack)

It's different in your grandmothers day, most things would have been within walking distance, shops etc, she probably didn't have to commute to work and look after 4 children, and she probably had a local family network and support, and community spirit. today grandparents bugger off abroad to see out their twilight years and spend the inheritance, families don't have the same contact, I haven't seen my brother for over a year, we all live far apart and juggle children with demanding jobs. We commute to work, have housework and have to cook and shop. Everything moves at a much faster pace.

I think that it's very telling that in all the reality programmes where they've sent people "back in time" to become coal miner's families etc. the families always say that they miss "the old days". They have more time for each other and more community, even though it's physically more difficult.

I think it is really hard to judge whether it was harder to be a mother in the past or now; there are so many differences in lifestyle.

I find it much more useful not to dwell on whether other people have things better than me, but rather to work out what I really want and can achieve within the limits of my abilities and the unavoidable constraints of our lives.

If I want something - anything - it's up to me to go out and get it.

I think life was far harder for our grandmothers. Certainly my own mum had a harder time. We have more choice, sometimes we regret or aren't happy with the choices we have made and feel guilty or even resentful. My mum just got on with it and hoped for the best.

We (well, if I'm honest, I) also do 'No, I put it on the calendar first, I'm going out on Tuesday'.

(This works in my favour as I remember to put things on the calendar more often.)

My paternal grandmother had 5 children.

But she also had thirteen servants and all her children went to boarding school at 5 or 7

Blimey Anna! Are you royalty or something!

But surely we're allowed to moan about it. Parenting is hard work and there is no respite for some so the opportunity to moan about wanting time out is time out in itself. I'd say don't be so hard on friends that need or want a break, it doesn't make them bad people. Why be a martyr about it?

My grandfather's sister was severly disabled, and she was looked after at home. It sounds as though she had cerebral palsy, but obviously there was no proper diagnosis at the time. There were 5 older siblings that also looked after her though, it wasn't all down to the Mum.

I have a much nicer life than my maternal grandmother, who committed suicide in pre-Independence India at the age of 25. Actually also much nicer than my somewhat frustrated and embittered paternal grandmother, who really should have gone and got herself a job instead of making her kids' lives a misery. Oh and when I think of it easier than my own mother's, as she really shouldn't have been a SAHM as she clearly found it very frustrating.

I still found having small children horribly tough, though. It's a lot better now.

cornsilk - no , my grandfather was a very senior Indian Civil Servant though - the big house and servants came with the job.

I never really know whether my paternal grandmother's life was hard or easy. On the one hand she had masses of domestic help, and she certainly didn't have to do chores or watch her children play. On the other hand, she was a terribly long way from her family and sending your tiny children to boarding school can't have been easy.

...bringing up small children is tough whoever does it.
Tidying and cleaning and cooking for children is tough, whoever does it.
My mother never played with us, we had 5 or 6 freidns we saw regulalry and called ouselves "the secret 7".
We had horses, we had a bug playroom, we had a lot of countryside. I used toleave after breakfast with a packed lunch, spend all day with friends and come home for my tea.
Nowadays that would be considered negligent.
While I was out my mother must have done the cleaning, washing, cooking etc.
But she did read, she did do puzzle books and she did her garden...[hysically her work was harder than mine with less mod cons, but she was able to let us wander off and do children stuff without a qualm, so maybe that bit was easier. Certainly she never saw her role as our entertainer and guardian in the way we seem to have to do now.

Actually, I think my own mother had a relatively cushy time when we were little . Lots of help - and £ handouts - from her mother.

I think we are all entitled to a little me time, op. You know, time to go and do something frivolous - like starting posts on MN

threads I mean...

MotherInferior, that's so sad about your grandmother's suicide. The poor woman.

My maternal grandmother bore two children ten years apart and had a young girl to help her with the children and the house. She met her friends every afternoon without fail to have tea and a chat. So, it seems on the surface like she lived a charmed life, but our town was bombed in both world wars (in the first from the sea and the second from the air) and she obviously had to cope with very real worries about much higher childhood mortality rates and so on.

To answer the OP, I think that a lot of people now have children later in life and the contrast between being a parent and the 15+ years of freedom preceding it can be pretty alarming.

Patsy

Cory - my mum always says the same. She didn't arrange 'playdates' - the idea would have been ridiculous. We went out to play.
We came in to eat.

This idea that because you chose to have children you must be prepared to supervise and care for them any time they are not at school or nursery and throughout their infancy....is something that you CANNOT comprehend until they are there and it is too late. It is relentless if you do not have family around or paid help.

I don't really know what I'm trying to say. I am THANKING THE DEAR LORD IN HEAVEN AND ALL HIS HOLY ANGELS that my youngest now has a few hours a week at nursery. I never imagined being that pathetically grateful for some peace
before I became a mum.

To the OP: Who said our grandparents coped? Mine certainly didn't, my maternal grandmother gave her kids to her mother to raise as she couldn't manage, my grandfather didn't want to look after them either as he was already looking after 5 kids from his second wife (4 were from her previous marriage) who was a chronic alcoholic.

My other grandmother was bitter to the end that her husband didn't let her work.

One of my maternal grandmother's friends put her kids into a foster home for a couple of years because she couldn't cope with them on her own.

I think it is a big fat myth that they were superwomen back then who didn't complain and didn't want "me time". They wanted it alright, they just didn't have the option to get it.

Hmm well one of my grandmother's lost her husband and brought up 4 children, one with learning disabilities who died. She set up and ran a boarding house. Although my grandfather survived 2 wars he was killed in an accident at work. She was awarded some money but it was only given when she needed it. Everytime my grandma needed money she had to go to court and ask for it and say what it was for. She was her own woman and ran her own business, she refused to remarry. Women's rights have thanfully moved on.

But on the plus side she at least got a pension and had an otherwise very happy life. A very close nit family too.

Plus most of us are older mums too! We're flagging and need our sleep.

and if you believe the media we're all hung over..

I agree. I really have to stifle a yawn when I hear of some people complaining, they chose to have a family noone made them have children, and if it is so bloody hard why have more children?

Being a sahm is much harder than I expected and I do get tired and sick of the drudge sometimes, I am also very stressed because of the financial situation that we are in but I do have to admit that I actually worked harder and was more tired when I worked full time before I became a parent.

YANBU. At all.

Many people also think far too much for their own good and it leads to much unecessary unhappiness, in addition to being very foolish, silly and immautre.

I think personal responsibility is in very short supply these days, and the lack thereof leads people to a rather grandiose sense of entitlement that has no basis in reality.

I am always reminded of my own grandmother, as well, emkana. Who was a widow and had buried a child when she was only 18 - they died of Spanish Flu and, as a revolution spread across her country - Mexico - extreme poverty and lack of work compelled her to leave. On foot. Alone. To a sister who was working as a chambermaid in a US hotel.

She then had 4 children, a husband who volunteered to serve in WWII in order to get his US citizenship and next to no money.

Yet, if you asked her if her life was hard, she would look confunded and say, 'What do you expect? You get on with it. There's always someone or something worse.#

We lived outdoors as kids.

BUT, I grew up in a very mild climate surrounded by family and good neighbours.