Schools insistence on uniform rules are behind the times

[spanieleyes22]

I know I will be slated for saying this but just reading a thread from a poster who is disappointed that there is not a more formal dress code at work and so many people saying everyone is more casual in offices all over the place and suits are more worn by older people in the city. Yet schools seem to put so much faith in whether a boy keeps his shirt tucked in or how short a girls skirt is. God forbid they dye their hair or have more than 1 stud earring. Isn't it time for schools to loosen up wrt dress code? In the Scandinavian countries there is no uniform. Does this mean their teenagers are wild and don't learn anything. Why are we so hung up on not allowing teenagers to express themselves.

My dd went to a secondary with no uniform in Ireland and clothes were just not an issue! Everyone wore what they felt comfortable in! Mostly hoodies . I think way too much is made of brands. And poor kids not keeping up etc. it was never an issue in my dd's school. Even in my dd school here on uniform days are just not important. The kids are relieved to wear comfortable clothes and those who like to express themselves with their clothes can.

You see this is a typical attitude from a parent who has never had a kid in a non uniform school! Both my kids went to non uniform primary and clothes were not an issue . Honestly they just weren't. I found it a lot cheaper too.

Completely agree. The fact other countries manage fine (and children in non-uniform schools here) really hasn't properly been addressed by anyone apart from one poster who said uniform works well for UK teens, as though they are so inherently different to European teens. Most people who are so in favour of uniforms haven't experienced a school without uniform because they're rare in the UK, particularly England.

Dental decay is considerably higher in children from more deprived backgrounds. Yes not going to the dentist is poor parenting but the bar for social care involvement for neglect is ridiculously high (or low, I suppose).

@MsAwesomeDragon I can see how some kids would struggle with the fashion parade - not all and it’s not entirely clear how many. My dcs never made a fuss over what they wore on non uniform day - they don’t make a fuss over designer brands either, but the strict uniform rules did cause lots of anxiety due to teachers over zealously applying them.

No uniform at DSs school.
There is a 'dress code' (essentially equates to 'not too revealing').

@Treesinmygarden it wasn't our sole criterion. It was just something we didn't like about it. And I don't think it's that strange - uniform policy says a lot about the culture of a school. Reception children in ties, and requiring different coloured hair ties for general uniform vs PE kit implies a level of rigidity that some parents will like more than others.

Schools are more focused on school rules than wellbeing of the pupils.

My friend’s DS attends a school with a one way system going around the school (which my school did) and he broke his foot. Twice a week he is expected to hobble on crutches around 95% of the school perimeter to go to his next lesson. He’s late for class and gets told off.

@Treesinmygarden I agree that not meeting a child's health needs is neglect, but I'd imagine parents were struggling due to poverty, not that they didn't care

A bit of compassion wouldn't go amiss here

You've only got to walk past a secondary school on a non-uniform day to know why we need uniform.

At our school - girls in shorts so short you can see their arse cheeks, bodycon dresses like they're going clubbing, t shirts with offensive slogans, shoes with heels that result in twisted ankles. We've even had onesies and pyjamas. Maybe they'd calm down if they could wear what they wanted every day but it just distracts them and, often, looks ridiculous too.

So I guess you'd need a long list of rules about what wasn't appropriate and then you'd still get kids and idiot parents arguing against them.

Let's just stick with uniform, it's easier. Only the kids and parents who have never been taught the word 'no' who struggle with it really (assuming adjustments for SEN and temporary issues, as at my school).

In my school he'd get a pass to leave class early and go the 'wrong way' if it was quicker and easier. I wonder if parents have asked.

We don't have any dress down days in our large high school in a seriously deprived area.
The kids hate it because the 'haves' and 'have nots' are glaringly obvious.
Uniform goes most of the way in preventing the poorer students standing out like sore thumbs.

@lemonmeringueno3
What a ridiculous, sweeping statement to say 'only kids who have never been taught the word no' have a problem. There is testimony from parents up and down the land regarding absurdly strict uniform rules, with punitive consequences being meted out for minor infringements and your comments dismiss them all in a really obnoxious way.

School uniform isn't enforceable in Scotland, although this isn't widely understood

So, schools do have a uniform / dress code, but it tends to be eg white shirt, black trousers, black jumper. Blazers available and encouraged, but not compulsory and usually just worn by S1 and prefects

My DC wear dark waterproof jackets, black jeans / leggings. Not super smart, but I think it's ok

Headteacher encourages uniform, but I've heard that he is actually quite relaxed about it, recognising that many children want to express a bit of individually. So, he's very strict about school work, behaviour and bullying, but ignores minor uniform infringements (really, he has to, as he can't enforce it)

School uniform is a godsend.

All the same, no bullying.
Shirts cost £12 for a pack of 5
No time wasting in the morning, worrying about what to wear
Most school uniform is built to last

Also it teaches dcs that they can't always have their own way. That rules apply to everyone and sometimes you just have to put up with them.

Ds goes into 6th form in September, where they are required to wear classic jeans or chinos, a collared shirt and a jacket. It'll be interesting t see how he deals with that.

The student body at a school that doesn’t have uniform looks nothing like one at a uniformed school on a non-uniform day.

School uniforms are petty and generally less comfortable and suitable for learning in than the jeans/hoodies that would otherwise be worn.

@GordonBlue I'm currently in the process of equipping my DS for private school. £422 is probably what we'll pay in total for all his uniform including sports wear. Some M&S for the basics, some thrift shop, some new. Includes a school blazer which is £120 new which I bought second hand for £40. But that's private and my choice.

On the other hand, for him when he was at state (and DD who is still there), it's cost peanuts. Yes I buy the school sweatshirts and t-shirts. £10 each but they get handed down and I could buy for £2 from thrift. Everything else supermarket, grey and navy theme. I just bought a bundle of gingham dresses from Vinted for DD for £4.

I have no idea where this notion that school inform is more expensive than 'normal' clothes comes from. Even the private uniform I'm buying, comparing new with new, is cheaper.

I think uniform is OK as it takes away the sorting clothes etc but bloody blazers and ties no! My husband has a professional job that requires smart clothes but it's literally shirt and trousers. Kids are more "dressed up" than they ever will be in adult life. The uniform needs to be comfortable, maybe a tshirt with a collar and pants/skirt and a sweatshirt not blazer, tie, shirt, trousers/skirt. My lo school police the fact that even coats are all black with no logo other than school crest. It's all so expensive as well

Your reply is very unkind @Treesinmygarden - it isn't the child's fault if the parents don't seek dental care.

Access to dentistry has never been universal in practice - the biggest factor is having an NHS dentist near enough to go to. Many people now, although technically eligible for NHS dental care, are unable to see a dentist because there aren't any.

My god, I if I had been at a secondary school with no uniform, I would have been ripped to shreds. I used to skive on any non uniform days as I knew I’d be taken the piss out of, and that was the early 90s, not today with designer obsessions. Uniforms are great for poor kids, you all have to look the same.

I don’t think some schools are strict enough. A child shouldn’t be allowed to go to school with brightly died hair or studs and earrings everywhere.

They shouldn’t be allowed to wear tiny skirts, shits tired into tank tops, have a face full of make up or my personal bug bear, have little handbags instead of proper school bags. I Iook at some of the girls in dds school in year 6 ffs, and wonder what the hell their parents are thinking, some of those 10/11 year old girls turn up for school like they are arriving at a nightclub. There’s always parents mouthing off in the play grunt at teachers over boys awful haircuts too (admittedly, I live in a shithole).

'No bullying'?

This is a total myth.

The psychology of uniforms is 'I wore one, I've internalised the belief they're a good thing and so I want my kids to wear one because it makes me comfortable.'

I think a uniform is generally a good thing, but that it should be much more practical than it currently is and there should be more freedom to "accessorise".

I don't mean just letting the kids go wild in what they choose. But when I was at school, it was banned to wear a single necklace or bracelet, wear a hair tie that wasn't school colours, dye your hair a different natural colour, paint your fingernails or wear any makeup at all.

Loads of schools near me insisted on full suits and ties in sixth form. They always said it was to prepare for work, but what sixth former is going to be wearing a suit to work any time in the next 5 years? Smart shirt and trousers is fine, but these schools insisted on jacket, tie and polished shoes.

My eldest actually went to a state primary school which didn’t have a uniform.

It was actually a massive pain in the arse.

Uniform is far easier.

£600 initially spent

£60 for a rugby shirt that was worn twice.

Then there would be more each year as ds grew and they changed the uniform style which everyone had to buy and start wearing 1 term later

It cost a fortune

Compare that to 3 pairs of jeans or trousers, a few t.shirts or shirts and a couple of hoodies and a coat

Even the school scarf was £20.

Then with uniform you have people taking your kids clothing because they know they can’t afford the next size up and you can’t immediately tell which jumper is yours.

I could kit ds out with clothes he felt comfortable wearing for the entire time he was at senior school for the amount of the initial outlay on uniform at 11 years old.

Children grow and replacing virtually everything after every growth spurt runs into thousands.

I agree that it's a sign of a very weak character if you need to rely on clothing, hair and make-up to express yourself.