Schools insistence on uniform rules are behind the times

[spanieleyes22]

I know I will be slated for saying this but just reading a thread from a poster who is disappointed that there is not a more formal dress code at work and so many people saying everyone is more casual in offices all over the place and suits are more worn by older people in the city. Yet schools seem to put so much faith in whether a boy keeps his shirt tucked in or how short a girls skirt is. God forbid they dye their hair or have more than 1 stud earring. Isn't it time for schools to loosen up wrt dress code? In the Scandinavian countries there is no uniform. Does this mean their teenagers are wild and don't learn anything. Why are we so hung up on not allowing teenagers to express themselves.

Oh sorry missed the sarcasm 😳

My primary school uniform was yellow and brown, secondary was burgundy and grey.
I used to go into 'Chelsea Girl' (it was the 80s) and look at the trendy black skirts / blue or green jumpers that were on sale and wish I went to a school with that colour uniform!

They.express themselves loudly, repeatedly,.and.cheekily all the time.

Don't get me wrong, I would be happy with them 'looking like kids.' But there's always the insistence for them having to 'look smart' as to why they need to wear a tie and blazer. I'm just pointing out, it's not needed at all.

That was the case at DS's non-uniform school too. I've never seen anyone on here mention an non-uniform school where the DC were bothered about clothes.

But poverty must not be made more obvious than it has to be. Children who are poor are very much aware of the difference between themselves and better off children.They don't need to be publicly stigmatised.

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I'm not opposed to the idea of uniforms but the strictness of many secondary school uniforms today is ridiculous. My DD's school are supposed to wear kilt-like skirts below mid-calf. I can't think of any reason for this (other than not distracting the boys but I can't see them putting that in writing) and can't think of any workplace with a similar dress code (convent maybe?). They get around it by saying the girls can wear trousers but as hardly any of them do it makes it challenging for those who don't want to stand out from the crowd. Blazers are restrictive and uncomfortable and don't even get me started on the rule that you can't remove then, even in blazing hot weather, unless the teacher gives permission.

It's also so expensive. When I was at school you wore a grey skirt from any shop, a grey jumper from any shop and a white shirt from any shop. Now the vast majority needs to come from expensive uniform providers, despite recent DfE guidelines.

Of course they are capable of behaving properly with or without uniform - but compulsory strict rules allow school management to be very tough indeed on those who don't or won't comply. Wearing uniform is also intended to suppress individuality and to generate esprit de corps. As I said, the zero tolerance theory. If you don't like it, find another school!

I have.

'intended to' - but there's no evidence it actually does. If you don't like it, find another school is a pretty poor attitude - say if it's the main secondary school in the area?

The reality is, however, that "find another school" is often just not a viable option in many areas. So what should parents do in that event?

Do 'they'? Not always, not in my experience. Look at the poor state of mental health of young people in the UK. Is wearing clothes that demonstrate conformity helping that?

I don’t know anyone outside school children who wears a nasty 4 pocket polyester blazer.

They’re archaic. And based on the times when men wore formal
attire to work. And those days have gone.No one wears them anymore unless they’re fashion based things.

Find another school is a pretty silly argument. For most people, catchments and distances mean they have very little choice of school if any. And most people don't have the choice of a non-uniform school even with other constraints removed since the vast majority of schools have uniforms.

Yes - I agree. Teaching students to think for themselves, to be independent, be able to self-manage, work properly with others are values and skills that aren't taught by wearing the correct uniform.

One of the problems is that the government makes no attempt to implement its own uniform guidance, which makes it clear that schools should not be opting for pointlessly expensive uniform or insisting that it be purchased from suppliers who will thus be able to load their prices. They really need to be brave enough to put legislation in place that actually enforces the guidance so that, for instance, funding for academies will be withdrawn and Ofsted will mark them down if they continue to insist on uniform that isn't widely available in generic shops.

In the meantime, it would also be good if the schools themselves reflect on the fact that ignoring government guidance isn't exactly setting a great example when it comes to complying with rules.

No need for blazers, or anything white so it can all go in one wash, but I approve of school uniforms in principle. I don’t think hoodies are a good plan either, would like them a little bit smart.

So why do they need to spend years at school in uniform to prepare for this? In Europe there are plenty of jobs requiring uniforms; strangely, it doesn't seem to present any problem whatsoever despite the fact that there is no tradition of uniform wearing in schools.

I would be seriously worried if my children had this much of a problem thinking about the very minor issue of what to wear in the mornings. How did your children cope at weekends and in the holidays? Let alone when they left school?

I assume you don't send them out looking like hobos of a weekend? I'm really not understanding this 'smart' business. They should be presentable every time they leave the house. Hoodies are completely presentable, assuming they are in good condition and clean. They don't detract from learning.

It wasn't a serious problem by any means but I certainly preferred not having to decide what to wear and that's why I would have preferred to keep uniform through 6th form. Having a preference for one thing doesn't mean the alternative is a serious problem, that's a silly bit of hyperbole.

uniforms are a big part of life and work. We gave our staff the option of uniform or not. And they voted overwhelmingly for a uniform

I don’t know anyone who wears a uniform for work. I know people do, but l dispute the fact that they are a big part of life. They don’t feature in my life unless l nip to Tesco. They did feature twice years ago when some manager in an office job tried to get us to wear them. We refused.

My Dd would have point blank refused a 6th form wear uniform was compulsory.

I don’t know anyone who wears a uniform for work. I know people do, but l dispute the fact that they are a big part of life.

Agreed. I can't think of anyone in my close acquaintance who wears a uniform to work

I'm not against uniform, but do agree that alot of the rules around it are unnecessarily petty, specific and outdated!
Nailvarnish, makeup, piercings should not be issues in secondary school.
Kids should be encouraged to dress smartly, but not need to feel like clones.
Plus if the school want these expensive uniforms, they should be funding them! (At least for the lower income families)

The “find another school if you don’t like it” argument is ridiculous.

I work in a different LA to the one I live in, (and the one therefore my own kids go to school in) and I worked in a third before that. So I know three LAs really well. Not a single one has a school with no uniform. Parents basically don’t have a choice. And as more and more schools academies and join large Trusts, often with several other schools, individuality is further reduced. Education is becoming increasingly homogenised. Which is fine, if it means reduced teacher workload and better education overall for children. But it also fosters groupthink and uniform is a classic example.

I was a secondary teacher for 17 years before moving into my current role (still in education, but in the LA). I wholeheartedly supported uniform. It’s just what we did. I never questioned it. It’s only now that I’ve seen other perspectives and reflected that I have completely shifted my viewpoint. I do think it is an area which needs more critical thinking and challenge of social norms. There is, as I’ve said before, not a shred of evidence it improves progress or attainment at all.