Schools insistence on uniform rules are behind the times

[spanieleyes22]

I know I will be slated for saying this but just reading a thread from a poster who is disappointed that there is not a more formal dress code at work and so many people saying everyone is more casual in offices all over the place and suits are more worn by older people in the city. Yet schools seem to put so much faith in whether a boy keeps his shirt tucked in or how short a girls skirt is. God forbid they dye their hair or have more than 1 stud earring. Isn't it time for schools to loosen up wrt dress code? In the Scandinavian countries there is no uniform. Does this mean their teenagers are wild and don't learn anything. Why are we so hung up on not allowing teenagers to express themselves.

Well never. But if I switched jobs to one where a tie and blazer was the uniform I'd be pretty happy about it.

But then I've never been one for the argument that school uniform is to prepare children for the world of work. I don't think it has anything to do with what adults wear. I just think it looks nice on school children.

Rugby shirt cost £60 and he wore it twice

They changed the style of the rugby shirt every single year (Ds left school early on but friends who had children at the school got sick of the uniform changes)
Rugby shirt was a lot more each year than £60 for a lesson that was only in one term per year and because of the way the lessons were interchanged with other sports the most it could be worn was 4 times.
School changed the design of some of the uniform items each year.

If schools want uniforms then like employers they should give it to the pupils for free otherwise shut up about it

I think if every school got rid of their uniform tomorrow there would be the initial fashion parade but it would settle down as apart from those who are incredibly rich and place importance on labels, most wouldn’t be able to afford a different branded outfit each day

I think we would have school children predominantly in Jeans, t.shirts and hoodies or pupils coming up with their own design trends.

Something has got to inspire fashion in this country. I go into clothes shops and I swear it is 1982

We seem to be rehashing the fashion from 40 years ago
I have my shoulder pads at the ready

You can “refuse to believe” whatever you want. We had many formal debates over it and the overwhelming majority believed uniforms would be better. What reason would I have to lie? 🙄

What bugs me about this is that 6th formers are expected to wear business suits in some schools. But the huge problem here is that hardly anyone in work nowadays wears business suits. We dress smartly, but comfortably. Have any of the teachers who set these requirements worked outside of education in the last 20 years or so? I doubt it.

Admittedly if you're working in a magic circle legal firm or in a city banking firm as a graduate, you might need to, but anywhere else then no. I'm a senior manager in the CS. We just don't do that anymore. We dress for comfort but don't take the mickey. I honestly cannot remember the last time I saw anyone wear either a suit and tie or a skirt and jacket. Unless they were appearing before a government Select Committee or on the Covid telly broadcasts with Boris.

The meeting I had with our amazing CEO, last week, she wore a lovely dress and a pair of trainers. And the last meeting I had with a fabulous Deputy Director and IT lead in my client organisation, he had a Star Wars T shirt on. But no doubt the teachers who think they know better would give detentions or whatever. Because they should have worn a suit and tie. Listen up parents, teachers don't know everything.

I suspect the reality was that a few people felt that way and your perceptions reflect your own opinions. IME pupils who attend formal debates aren't representative of the majority of the school population.

How many people really regard it as a waste of time or brain cells deciding what to wear during the 175 days a year as children and the several decades subsequently that we are not in school? If having to make choices is so dreadful, the logical conclusion is that we should all wear uniforms 100% of the time, be forced to follow prescribed menus for all meals, be forced to go to bed and get up at the same time, have no choice for TV programmes, etc etc. No thanks.

They aren't dressing them to "look pretty". They're dressing them to look smart. Yes, uniforms might need a little modernisation but I am still a huge fan!

I'm totally with you!

Who on earth goes to work in tracksuits, jogging bottoms and flip flops? Apart from people who might work in a sports centre? Or a PE teacher? Which is totally appropriate.

Certainly nobody who works in any sort of professional office environment would.

And there is nothing wrong with polo shirts in a professional environment. It's 2024, not 1954.

DT’s went to a non uniform school as did their cousins in Belgium, France and the USA - none of them ever wanted to wear a school uniform. They pitted other children dressed in impractical school uniforms - having shirts, ties and blazers when they were comfortable in jeans, hoodies and trainers

My kids both loved the fact they didn’t need to think in a morning. And my eldest DD choose a 6th from because it had a uniform.

uniforms are a big part of life and work. We gave our staff the option of uniform or not. And they voted overwhelmingly for a uniform.

I think we should have uniforms but don't understand why it can't just be a polo shirt/jumper. Primary school uniform is so much better and more comfortable.
I've heard of schools local to us putting kids into isolation because they didn't have their blazer on or had the wrong coloured socks. I don't really see how this is beneficial to anyone. Gov keeps talking about not taking kids out of school for holidays but then they are kept out of lessons because their hair isn't right. Doesn't make sense to me.

When DCs were at school we had more issues in sixth form as although it was non-uniform it was ‘smart casual’ and so the rules were less clear cut and by then kids really want to express themselves!
I am in favour of uniform but as others say, some of the rules around it are nonsensical.
primary was polo shirts and sweatshirts which was def better! Ties are not necessary for anyone. I can’t remember when dh last wore a tie.

What bugs me about this is that 6th formers are expected to wear business suits in some schools. But the huge problem here is that hardly anyone in work nowadays wears business suits. We dress smartly, but comfortably. Have any of the teachers who set these requirements worked outside of education in the last 20 years or so? I doubt it.

At my school the sixth-formers (within reason) wore what they wanted. Far from strutting about in designer labels, jeans and t-shirts were pretty much ubiquitous. When in school in the states, no one wore uniform but teachers were treated with respect; both male and female teachers accorded equal status and addressed as Sir or Ma'am.

IMO, the UK has some of its priorities wrong. Once kids enter the post-compulsory sector they should be given more freedom, not less. No wonder so many are defecting from the sixth form to FE colleges, but I've taught in FE many years ago in the past and am dubious as to the quality of the teaching. The fact that the education sector is there to benefit the interests of young people seems to be getting lost amid the supposition that draconian measures to control them takes priority in schools.

Opinions will differ as to whether turning kids into identikit clones, or whether quantity of time in the classroom directly equates to quality of education, is in children's best interests. My own view is an emphatic 'no' on both counts.

@yalta Rugby shirt cost £60 and he wore it twice
They changed the style of the rugby shirt every single year (Ds left school early on but friends who had children at the school got sick of the uniform changes)
Rugby shirt was a lot more each year than £60 for a lesson that was only in one term per year and because of the way the lessons were interchanged with other sports the most it could be worn was 4 times.
School changed the design of some of the uniform items each year.

That’s your experience though. It’s not generalisable, and not the norm for most state schools. When my DS’s state school introduced a new jumper style, they allowed the old style to be worn simultaneously with the new style, until the old style gradually became phased out. Sixty pounds is also not the norm for a state school rugby shirt. Especially in the current economic climate, schools don’t want backlash from parents, or the negative publicity that comes with overpricing school uniform and/or changing uniform constantly.

I went to a pretty strict girls' grammar school and they managed without ridiculous uniform rules. Admittedly there was a thing about skirt lengths and nobody would have been allowed to wear trousers back then ;)

But there were no ties, no blazers and all you needed for PE was a white top and navy shorts (mine had white stripes down the side which would have no doubt given school apoplexy now for breaking the "plain" rules, but were fine there).

At sixth form we just had a dress code and certain colours. No suits.

If it worked then, why not now?

I forgot that not long before I started, they changed the uniform and allowed the older girls to wear the old one (which did involve a tie) until they left/grew out of it. Again, why do headteachers think it's fine to impose expensive new uniforms on existing parents?

Exactly, it's ridiculous. SMTs need to allow their teachers to teach, and stop enforcing pointless rules. Enforce the ones that matter.

A school near where I grew up brought in a simplified uniform but I think quite a lot of people were upset about it. I think it was because the school said it was to accommodate transgender pupils but, really, it was because the teachers were sick of telling girls their skirts were too short.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-49599078.amp

My DD has to wear non uniform this week as uniform isn't suitable for the planned activities.

And PE kit (not shorts) on Friday as again, the school trip isn't suitable for uniform.

Surely a primary school uniform should be made to be suitable for curriculum activities?

The whole argument that wearing a uniform gets the ready gif work is utter rubbish. When was the last time you saw a University with a uniform policy? They are the students that will be running the country one day. They all seem to be able to transition to work attire without difficulty.
Strict school uniform is a small-minded, anachronistic dead end. However, a lot of people in this country have difficulty progressing from the status quo ( it's a recognised psychological phenomenon across human kind) so they defend it even when it makes no sense.

Sorry, typo. Meant to type 'gets them ready for work'

The whole argument that wearing a uniform gets the ready gif work is utter rubbish. When was the last time you saw a University with a uniform policy?

University isn’t work. More than 60% of school leavers do not go straight to university and many of them will go into jobs with uniform requirements. Many FE vocational courses also require uniforms.

DT’s never wore a school uniform but successfully managed to dress appropriately in their graduate jobs. Same as others around the world in non school uniform countries

But uniforms don't make everyone equal. The reality is that everyone knows which kids come from well-off families and which don't. Clearly having uniform rules achieves nothing in relation to skirt lengths.

So how come teachers in non-uniform schools all over the world cope absolutely fine?