Schools insistence on uniform rules are behind the times

[spanieleyes22]

I know I will be slated for saying this but just reading a thread from a poster who is disappointed that there is not a more formal dress code at work and so many people saying everyone is more casual in offices all over the place and suits are more worn by older people in the city. Yet schools seem to put so much faith in whether a boy keeps his shirt tucked in or how short a girls skirt is. God forbid they dye their hair or have more than 1 stud earring. Isn't it time for schools to loosen up wrt dress code? In the Scandinavian countries there is no uniform. Does this mean their teenagers are wild and don't learn anything. Why are we so hung up on not allowing teenagers to express themselves.

I think clothes are a lot less important in a non uniform school. I suppose maybe it's area specific etc but we've been in two, one of which was in a v posh area, but there just wasn't any of that guff going on at all. It was certainly preferable to uniform imo.

Yes, I agree. DD also at a non-uniform school. 99% of the time, 99% of them are in jeans/shorts, T shirts and hoodies. Trainers/Converse are the footwear of choice. DD wears jogging bottoms quite a lot. There is a huge range of wealth in the school but nobody cares if people are wearing Primark or, well, I don't know what the opposite thing would be in teenage world because literally none of them care.

They all love to be let loose in Primark/Penny's where we are. It's no longer the badge of shame it once was 😁

The reason these teenagers are so hung up on clothes/brands is because they are being taught as a direct consequence of the uniform policy that what they wear and what they look like matters. It just doesn't happen like this in a non-uniform school. You see the rich kids in H&M or whatever just as often as the less well off ones.

Exactly. The novelty wears off pretty quickly. I mean most of the continent don't wear uniforms to school and it seems to work fine over there.

This is how they dress outside of school. You surely can’t tell me that is all down to wearing a uniform? That they wouldn’t care about projecting a certain image via clothes if it wasn’t for a uniform? I think that’s naive and fails to take into account the pressure many teenagers face to look a certain way due to things like social media. Maybe like the previous poster said it could be down to locality and demographic.

You see the rich kids in H&M or whatever just as often as the less well off ones.

The rich kids can afford to go to school in H&M and Primark, it is the poorer students who can’t

We're in a relatively well off area, and we're the povo's. But it has never been an issue. It was in my uniformed school where I was bullied, because the uniform was falling to pieces. With DD, we can dress her in decent clothes that aren't falling apart, and we can top up her wardrobe incrementally at a relatively low cost. Uniforms don't really allow for that.

The point is that the uniform is reinforcing the toxic message that what you wear matters, what you look like matters. Schools should be working against that, not with it, because it is absolutely true that what you look like is the least important thing about anyone. I can definitely tell you that in my experience of non-uniform schools, children feel much more free to go against the prevailing trend and to wear what they personally like and feel comfortable in - I have attended both uniform and non-uniform schools and so has my daughter and we have both found that in the non-uniform schools, children felt significantly less pressure about what to wear, ranging from a little bit down to none at all depending on personality. Being in a uniform five days a week increases the pressure massively in our experience. Admittedly my time was before social media, but DD is 17 and in the thick of it.

To some extent, making sure they observe uniform rules helps with discipline. Zero tolerance theory.

Is there any actual evidence for that though?

My experience as a secondary teacher of 25 years, the worse the behaviour the stricter the uniform.

I don't agree with this at all. Kids who don't wear uniforms are perfectly capable of behaving appropriately. Uniforms have absolutely nothing to do with it.

@Combattingthemoaners
There is no evidence at all to support that a non-uniform environment would take any more clothing policing time than a uniform one. So many other countries manage just fine without them. I'm broadly in support of uniform as a parent but this authoritarian enforcement of entirely arbitrary strict uniform rules is just a colossal waste of time and goodwill of the students . There is no earthly reason why kids shouldn't be allowed to wear comfortable shoes. Plain black trainers should be fine. There is absolutely no benefit to making kids wear blazers. It makes no difference whatsoever, despite enthusiastic attempts to claim otherwise, the research just doesn't back it up.

I'd love to know why they torture themselves with the blazers. What is the benefit of them at all?

@Toddlerteaplease are you my lifestyle twin?! I had to wear blazer and tie right the way through to sixth form and loved it!
Am also a nurse, always wear a dress which is much more comfortable than the trousers.

Isn't that it though, you loved what you were wearing? Lots of kids don't love uniforms, why should they be forced into wearing them. They should wear what they're comfortable in, within reason.

The EEF has researched the impact of uniform on attainment and progress of disadvantaged kids. It has no impact. Zero. We’re wedded to it because we’ve always done it and we think the world will end and standards will slip if we let kids come to school in hoodies instead of a polyester jacket.

I work with children in care and children with a social worker, overseeing their education. The number of battles with schools I have about uniform are unreal. The most vulnerable children are repeatedly put in isolation or suspended for refusing to wear shoes instead of trainers or trousers instead of leggings. When you’ve had to leave your family and everything you know and come into care, you’re desperate for some sense of control and comfort. To wear trainers for school instead of black shoes is a very common request for my cohort. It causes no end of issues and the ultimate end result is a uniform policy being prioritised over a vulnerable child’s education.

We don’t have to scrap uniform completely. We could have school hoodies and the option of joggers or leggings and trainers. Somehow teenagers at college are allowed to wear what they want every day, and still pass A levels and get into good universities.

@Blondieblueeyes I have dresses for the summer. My trust allows us to wear shorts with tunics. It makes my teeth itch. It looks dreadful and so unprofessional. I'm dying to start wearing the silver belt buckle I was given when I qualified, quite fancy a cape and a starched head dress as well.

I agree as well. The over-policing of uniforming indicates a massive distrust of students, a ridiculous message that sartorial conformity in itself indicates discipline and in fact creates more distrust of the institution itself, and less 'buy in' because it's so overdone. Teenagers are sentient beings, not just biddable humanoids that need to be removed (eg detention) for not following the minutiae of rules that serve very little purpose other than to give school management the feel that they're exercising power.

If I understand you correctly, I think the uniforms actually discourage independent thought. Imo, it's far better for a child to be able to police their own behaviour and clothes. They're learning how to function in society, without a gun to their head so to speak. From what I've seen this far, it works very well. And seemingly no time wasted gawking at miniscule logos on shoes.

My area of the USA doesn't have uniforms. Catholic schools do, and some urban and southern schools do -- it seems to be higher in areas with a lot of Black students. Usually there it's khaki trousers and a polo shirt so everyone looks like they work at Target, Catholic school uniforms are a bit more like English ones. A friend of mine in NZ was shocked to discover that in her area high school girls still wear calf length woolen kilts that cost over $200 each!

To be quite honest I don't think uniform makes any difference but it's an article of faith in countries that have it. I must say at the high school I could swear a substantial proportion of girls were wearing pyjamas to class when I was there.

They don’t look smart. Children, especially, young children in Reception and KS1 should wear ties, collared shirts, polyester pants and blazers. It is even better if they get rid of their Peppa Pig and Paw Patrol backpacks, and carry briefcases. Then they will look even smarter.

But if course milord 😂

Why do kids need to look 'smart'?