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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is mumsnet right wing?

1000 replies

BrilloPadHairball · 17/05/2024 02:32

There are so many benefits bashing threads on here I’m really starting to wonder. Do the majority of people posting on mumsnet lean heavily to the right?

OP posts:
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27
SnapdragonToadflax · 17/05/2024 15:01

I think Mumsnet is generally centre or centre-left, but with plenty of right-leaning commenters as well. There are a few who are extra chatty and make their presence felt more than most.

It is not right-wing to be gender critical. Every woman I know who firmly believes that trans women are men are Labour or Green voting, wooly liberals. Mostly teachers, social workers, NHS workers. Women who actually work in the real world and see what damage the Tories do to society. Just because the right have seized on the idea as a culture war, doesn't make it a right-wing view.

Brefugee · 17/05/2024 15:03

i also think that many on the left are horrified at people cheating the benefit system because it takes away resources from those who need it, and gives the tory government the excuse they need to whittle away at the system so it supports nobody.

Not forgetting labour movements and the left work from a position of: those who are able work and support those who are unable to do it for themselves. It is not about freeloading or doing down the poorest of society.

Notamum12345577 · 17/05/2024 15:03

BrilloPadHairball · 17/05/2024 02:32

There are so many benefits bashing threads on here I’m really starting to wonder. Do the majority of people posting on mumsnet lean heavily to the right?

Yes

TheMarzipanDildo · 17/05/2024 15:03

Well I think I’m a member of one of the Communist parties and I’m here.

TooBigForMyBoots · 17/05/2024 15:05

It is a lot more right wing than it used to be, but the Brexit debacle shifted the UK to the right so I think MN is just reflecting this.

Cornishclio · 17/05/2024 15:11

No and I don't benefit bash anyone. I would call myself left of centre. I don't have a problem with immigration, taxes and believe in well funded public services.

frankentall · 17/05/2024 15:13

TooBigForMyBoots · 17/05/2024 15:05

It is a lot more right wing than it used to be, but the Brexit debacle shifted the UK to the right so I think MN is just reflecting this.

Brexit is a whole different can of worms - it is 100% hated on MN and anyone who dares suggest even a scintilla of support is hacked to bits instantly, but everyone has forgotten that Brexit had a degree of support on the left too, not least from one J Corbyn, Dennis Skinner, John Mann and many others. However MN has recast Brexit as supported only by old tory gammons.

ABirdsEyeView · 17/05/2024 15:28

I think there are a lot of vocal anti Brexit left wingers on here and quieter right leaning voters.

But I think there is an increasing intolerance amongst left leaning women towards the lefty men whi talked a good game but who are ultimately happy to throw women under the bus and prioritise male demands above all else.

Left leaning women are getting pissed off with their needs always being at the bottom of the list!

Carouselfish · 17/05/2024 15:52

I'm left as all heck, not religious, long time gay and kesbian ally. Fully gender critical though. And all the other GC people I know are the same bar one conservative.

GentlemanJohnny · 17/05/2024 15:52

Where are these "loads" of benefit bashing threads????

suggestionsplease1 · 17/05/2024 15:56

LostTheMarble · 17/05/2024 11:42

I never said those are your specific words, but they are the thoughts held by many gender ideologists. Looks what’s happened to JKR, a woman who’s never been seen as anything but liberal until she started fighting for sex based rights. Now to TRAs, she’s the poster for the far right apparently.

However, I've seen a great many comments on the MN Feminism boards saying they will be voting Tory despite being concerned with social justice and historically left wing, simply because of the tories aggressive stance on gender ideology.

As is their right to do if the politics suits them. You seem to have missed a great chunk of my posts that states your vote should reflect your views rather than putting aside what works for you for the general population.

and I find it depressing when people become single issue focused when they proclaim to be feminists, which is a movement that encompasses so much

Gender ideology has been the greatest threat to feminism and female sex recognition since the days of the Suffragettes. Without recognition of that, all other fights for women and girls rights are fully undermined. If you can’t say what a woman is, how can we fight for anything regarding women and girls to start with?

And they’re not ‘proclaiming’ to be feminists. There are plenty of hypocritical self proclaimed feminists around, but those speaking against gender ideology aren’t the ones.

And yet the countries in the world that according to you can not define a woman (have policies of self-ID) are the countries that are doing the best for women.

https://populationconnection.org/blog/what-are-the-top-countries-for-gender-equality/#:~:text=1)%20Denmark,(2021)%2C%20at%200.013.

https://giwps.georgetown.edu/the-index/

https://www.weforum.org/publications/global-gender-gap-report-2023/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_self-identification#:~:text=As%20of%20March%202023%2C%2011,a%20court%20permission%20is%20required.

The countries who have introduced self-ID have stayed or risen to the top of the international tables for women's wellbeing and parity with men since introducing self-ID, in all the major studies carried out looking at women's equality.

FWR needs to explain why these countries are staying at the top of the leagues for women's happinesses, security, wellbeing, and equality for women, if their approach towards trans rights is such a problem for women.

Global Gender Gap Report 2023

The Global Gender Gap Index annually benchmarks the current state and evolution of gender parity across four key dimensions (Economic Participation and Opportunity, Educational Attainment, Health and Survival, and Political Empowerment). It is the long...

https://www.weforum.org/publications/global-gender-gap-report-2023

Againname · 17/05/2024 15:56

Excited101 · 17/05/2024 14:59

I think the problem is, so many people know someone who is abusing the benefit system. I certainly do, to the point where I’d love to report them but I’d worry about how it could affect their child, so I don’t.

but I am labour voting, and massively agree with and support the NHS and the benefits system as a whole. But it can be abused and is abused and that makes me really really angry.

I've only known one person (years ago) who could be described as abusing the benefits system. The thing is though she also abused other systems.

That's the thing. The minority of people who might abuse one system or service are often the type to abuse another one too. That's relevant at the top too though and I think there's less moral excuse when it's someone very wealthy rather than someone with limited finances. Extremely wealthy people who abuse the tax system or expenses or something else. Nobody's 'living it up on benefits. Even when it seems like large sums of money a lot of it isn't going to the claimant, it's going to the landlord (the rising benefits bill is strongly related to lack of council housing, and funding cuts to other public services).

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/05/2024 15:58

FWR needs to explain why these countries are staying at the top of the leagues for women's happinesses, security, wellbeing, and equality for women, if their approach towards trans rights is such a problem for women.

This isn't FWR, where the disingenuous presentation of these papers has been addressed and refuted many times over.

suggestionsplease1 · 17/05/2024 16:00

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/05/2024 15:58

FWR needs to explain why these countries are staying at the top of the leagues for women's happinesses, security, wellbeing, and equality for women, if their approach towards trans rights is such a problem for women.

This isn't FWR, where the disingenuous presentation of these papers has been addressed and refuted many times over.

Actually, no-one has credibly disputed these major international studies that are cited by governments, health organisations and womens's rights groups internationally.

They are hugely respected studies, and they all point in the same direction, a very strong correlation between those countries doing well for women, and those countries doing well for trans people.

Againname · 17/05/2024 16:06

They would have been broadly anti EU, and anti equal pay for women because any influx of foreign workers or women workers would have impacted men's jobs.

With this, I think it's important to understand why and not kneejerk label them as Bad People. It can't be denied that increased job competition can affect unemployment levels and lowers wages. That's the case whoever the increased competitiom comes from, whether women or migrants, or regional incomers. See the multiple threads where people are upset about 'blow ins' adding housing or job pressure. 'Blow ins' who, after being told to move away from their area for more affordable housing or for work, take that advice.

Some people are genuinely prejudiced (against different groups in the workplace or their area simply because they're different) but I suspect they're a small minority. Most are simply genuinely worried about the impact on their already difficult or precarious financial and or social circumstances. It's actually imo very right-wing to not consider the impact on disadvantaged people and communities. That doesn't mean I'm saying different groups should be made to feel unwelcome or blamed. Rather that it is important to not dismiss concerns, and instead discuss and look at potential solutions. Solutions that are compassionate to all groups involved, and taking into account the impact on and needs of less advantaged people and communities.

The importance of not defaulting to automatically labelling someone as Bad without listening to their concerns or reasoning, goes beyond just the workplace issues above. I think it's relevant in general, including attitudes towards people's political voting choices. I'd like to see less labelling of people as Bad or Good, and efforts made to avoid unnecessary hostility, blaming whatever group, or kneejerk accusations of bigotry (unhelpful and does nothing to change people's views or solve the actual issues or concerns).

I'm probably too idealistic though.

Northernnature · 17/05/2024 16:10

I have always found the people who describe themselves as left wing/socialist are wealthy and middle class and often have multiple homes and fly alot despite banging on about lack of housing and the environment) so yes mn is left wing. And btw the Tory party is not right wing. Highest taxes since 1940s, mass immigration 1m plus per year and public spending share of gdp alot higher than Blair govt, massively high crime - they are left.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/05/2024 16:12

The importance of not defaulting to automatically labelling someone as Bad without listening to their concerns or reasoning, goes beyond just the workplace issues above. I think it's relevant in general, including attitudes towards people's political voting choices. I'd like to see less labelling of people as Bad or Good, and efforts made to avoid unnecessary hostility, blaming whatever group, or kneejerk accusations of bigotry (unhelpful and does nothing to change people's views or solve the actual issues or concerns).

I'm probably too idealistic though.

I agree with you.

AlisonDonut · 17/05/2024 16:23

suggestionsplease1 · 17/05/2024 16:00

Actually, no-one has credibly disputed these major international studies that are cited by governments, health organisations and womens's rights groups internationally.

They are hugely respected studies, and they all point in the same direction, a very strong correlation between those countries doing well for women, and those countries doing well for trans people.

So the people that cannot define women and include men, automatically come out as being good for the people they cannot define?

And you never see the complete batshitness of your argument.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/05/2024 16:28

They've never seen it (or pretend not to) in the eleventy million threads they've brought this lame gotcha up in, so I doubt they're suddenly going to start seeing it now.

Sunflowergirl1 · 17/05/2024 16:29

Surely you don't have to be right wing to criticise the benefits systems...not me anyway but it is a disgrace. It supports the lazy and fraudulent but not those who are really in need. I've never known a country so full of lazy good for nothing skivers frankly.

AlisonDonut · 17/05/2024 16:39

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/05/2024 16:28

They've never seen it (or pretend not to) in the eleventy million threads they've brought this lame gotcha up in, so I doubt they're suddenly going to start seeing it now.

The thought of Belgium, which announced that the state could press charges if a sex worker refused sex or sex acts with clients, is a good place for women to live and yet this MRA STILL posts this utter bunkum, really does make me weep for humanity.

And not wanting women raped - makes me right wing.

Unbeliveable.

This is why people say 'well if I'm going to be called right wing then fuck it. I'll be right fucking wing'.

suggestionsplease1 · 17/05/2024 16:43

AlisonDonut · 17/05/2024 16:23

So the people that cannot define women and include men, automatically come out as being good for the people they cannot define?

And you never see the complete batshitness of your argument.

You seem to be labouring under some misguided notion that maybe 30 or 40% of men are suddenly identifying as women in these countries that are world leaders for women. 😂

I get it, you don't like the clear evidence that exists.

These countries, like all countries, have very small numbers of trans people.

We also know that trans people have very poor outcomes on all measures used in these studies - educational attainment, labour market participation, income, health and wellbeing outcomes, empowerment, lifespan, discrimination etc etc.

Transwomen as a demographic score lower across all measures than women or men, and as such, on the occasions that they may be recorded as women in the data, they would be bringing the overall scores down for women, not raising them up. Even more impressive then that these countries are doing so well.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/05/2024 16:44

The thought of Belgium, which announced that the state could press charges if a sex worker refused sex or sex acts with clients, is a good place for women to live and yet this MRA STILL posts this utter bunkum, really does make me weep for humanity.

And not wanting women raped - makes me right wing.

Unbeliveable.

This is why people say 'well if I'm going to be called right wing then fuck it. I'll be right fucking wing'.

Indeed.

AlisonDonut · 17/05/2024 16:46

suggestionsplease1 · 17/05/2024 16:43

You seem to be labouring under some misguided notion that maybe 30 or 40% of men are suddenly identifying as women in these countries that are world leaders for women. 😂

I get it, you don't like the clear evidence that exists.

These countries, like all countries, have very small numbers of trans people.

We also know that trans people have very poor outcomes on all measures used in these studies - educational attainment, labour market participation, income, health and wellbeing outcomes, empowerment, lifespan, discrimination etc etc.

Transwomen as a demographic score lower across all measures than women or men, and as such, on the occasions that they may be recorded as women in the data, they would be bringing the overall scores down for women, not raising them up. Even more impressive then that these countries are doing so well.

How does anyone know...bearing in mind they don't keep data on this nor do they keep records of who commits what crime?

If women don't exist then of course violence against women doesn't exist.

That's how the 'surveys' make it look like everything is fine.

As you've been told time and again. But for the benefit of the lurkers.

DoorPath · 17/05/2024 16:49

Tattletwat · 17/05/2024 10:58

The left will say it's rightwing, the right will say it's left wing and in reality it settles somewhere in middle.

Just because someone has certain opinions on a certain subject doesn't necessarily make them right or left wing.

It literally does

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