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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I know it's been done to death but I don't think people realise how hard it is to work in a school!

346 replies

user4692821 · 16/05/2024 20:37

I work in a small village primary school in the north. I'm so used to hearing people saying "oh I'd love to work in a school so I could have the holidays off" or something along the lines of "well you can't complain as you get so much holidays with the kids" etc.

My week normally consists of:

Being called a bch 3/4 times a day
Told to shut the fk up at least once a day
Being punched
Spat at

And that's just some of the 'bad' incidents. It's not mentioning the other more 'minor' incidents that happen constantly through the day.

I work with 6/7 year olds. In a mainstream school. It's not uncommon, most TA's have similar in their classes. When we meet people from other schools they say the same.

Yet we are constantly told to be grateful we have a job that gives us time off for our kids. I 100% get that it's lucky we can have the holidays off so we don't have to pay for childcare. However what I ask myself everyday is: is this worth my mental health? Because honestly (apart from NHS jobs or similar) where would you go in to work and expected to be treated like this and paid minimum wage?

OP posts:
JumpstartMondays · 17/05/2024 07:07

I'm reading this thread with BBC news headlines on in the background and they're reporting about teacher shortages crisis in schools...it's hardly a wonder is it?!

Sympathies and solidarity from another local village primary school worker. This is my second career and 10 years in I feel like I'm ready for my third career already.

CaptainCallisto · 17/05/2024 07:09

TomeTome · 17/05/2024 06:19

The OPs post is about people “not realising how hard it is to work in a school” so it is entirely relevant to point out that it isn’t “harder” than many many jobs outside of school, isn’t it? At no point have I tried to suggest OP isn’t “entitled” to say anything.

Edited
Show quote history

But the point wasn't that its harder than other jobs. The point was that the continuing narrative appears to be what a lovely job it is, with 9-3 hours and lots of holidays, and that TAs just clean paint pots and listen to children read.

Everyone knows NHS and retail staff, for example, are treated like crap by the general public, but (as can be evidenced by this thread) people still seem genuinely shocked when they learn what life is actually like for staff in schools.

Vcal2017 · 17/05/2024 07:09

I am a teacher. Been a teacher for 20 years and I’ve just been made redundant. I’m 53. I don’t think I can go back. All the money in the world and the holidays don’t make up for being mentally, emotionally and spiritually broken. I’d rather budget hard and sit at a desk than deal with kids threatening me, middle management who micro manage and seeing colleagues crying every day. Schools are battle grounds.

HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · 17/05/2024 07:12

Einwegflasche · 17/05/2024 07:05

@HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend I don't think anyone is saying that only teaching staff have a difficult job, but they are allowed to speak about their lived experience and need to be listened to.

People in other challenging roles can start their own thread if they want to.

If the OP had even said this, I would not have commented in the way I had however they said the complete opposite.

I don’t disagree with what you are saying tho.

OldChinaJug · 17/05/2024 07:12

HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · 17/05/2024 06:59

Because honestly (apart from NHS jobs or similar) where would you go in to work and expected to be treated like this and paid minimum wage?

I hate the woe is me with threads like these as if no other profession is subjected to abuse 🤯

There is literally hundreds of roles that are subjected to abuse on a daily basis and are much harder than what you’ve described (although abuse is not acceptable on any level)

My husband work for the local housing authority, in the last month he’s had a knife pulled out on him, he’s literally had to save himself and his colleague from being kidnapped and could only escape by getting into a physical altercation and pulling on his emergency alert, all of which left him and his colleague battered, bloody and bruised.

Been told at CORE meeting that he was going to have his head chopped off!

Was assaulted in the office after a tenant pushed the desk between them, trapping my husband against the wall bruising his ribs…. This was because the court granted an eviction due to non payment of rent for 17 months…. Evictions happen a few times a month….

He’s subjected to threats of violence and verbal abuse daily.

He has over 45 colleagues doing the same role…. One colleague had a bat took to her head and was hospitalised for over 8 weeks, another colleague has all her home windows put out twice with her children at home, colleague had to have home CCTV and street CCTV installed by the police due to being targeted by now ex tenants , who is now in prison due to assault and harassment.

So while I sympathise that it’s not an easy job, there is loads of jobs that are expected to put up with a multitude of shit! Irregardless of pay levels.

That's horrific!

I think the reason teachers get 'defensive' is because people look at their own children and can't imagine them or a class of children like them ever behaving in such a way and so doubt teachers when we say it happens (it's already been seen on this thread).

It's not right or acceptable in any sense but people can imagine someone in your husbbands role potentially facing that scenario and, more importantly, don't disbelieve it for a second.

Some, very vulnerable sections of society, have always behaved like this and always will do for various reasons but I don't think any of us expect it of children.

Especially when you consider the qualities of someone who is generally drawn towards teaching and working with children. And that they are mostly women.

Schools have never been perfect; parents have never been perfect. My biggest concern is not that it happens as such but that, in my teaching career, it has got worse and my fear is for the adults some of these children are going to become.

Katemax82 · 17/05/2024 07:14

My MIL always tells me to " get a job in a school " (as if I could just walk into one with no skills or qualifications) but I don't want it for OPs reasons

Einwegflasche · 17/05/2024 07:15

CaptainCallisto · 17/05/2024 07:09

But the point wasn't that its harder than other jobs. The point was that the continuing narrative appears to be what a lovely job it is, with 9-3 hours and lots of holidays, and that TAs just clean paint pots and listen to children read.

Everyone knows NHS and retail staff, for example, are treated like crap by the general public, but (as can be evidenced by this thread) people still seem genuinely shocked when they learn what life is actually like for staff in schools.

Show quote history

Agreed.
Pointing out that some people simply don't realise how hard it is to work in a school does not mean OP is comparing it to other challenging jobs! It just means that some folk don't realise the challenges teaching staff face.

Didimum · 17/05/2024 07:15

OldChinaJug · 17/05/2024 06:54

Our hands are largely tied though.

What can we do?

Remove privileges? What privileges? We can take away breaktime but the children don't really care. Some children are at risk of permanent exclusion for their behaviour but it rarely happens because those children have a right to an education and there's no where else for them to go. We can exclude for a couple of days after a physical assault but then the child is back, in the same class and with the same teacher/child they assaulted.

On the rare occasion that a parent removes their child from school believing that its the schools fault, the problem just transfers elsewhere.

My school has a early robust behaviour policy and a clear system of rewards and sanctions but the persistent offenders are immune to it. They just don't care.

Show quote history

On the rare occasion that a parent removes their child from school believing that it’s the schools fault, the problem just transfers elsewhere.

No. My son attended a school where behaviour was highly problematic. My son’s behaviour rapidly declined when he joined, to the point I was being called by the headteacher almost daily. They told me he needed assessing and was put on an unsuccessful one plan. He had come from a school where he experienced no issues. For a year I worked my arse off on his behaviour (which was not a problem at home) and did everything the school asked. Over the course of that time, it just didn’t begin to sit right – I volunteered in the school a number of times and whatever behaviour policy they had was poorly and inconsistently implemented. It was worse than a zoo.

I eventually listened to my gut, that the school culture was at fault and my son was being set up for failure, and moved him. From day 1 at his new school he has not had one behavioural issue, not one phone call and not one pulling aside from the teacher, and he’s received numerous behaviour awards there. I’ve since learnt that his old class has gone from 26 kids to 17, and all of those children who displayed behavioural issues do not anymore. It was 100% the school and there is no way this is a unique case.

I don’t blame the teachers of that class. They looked grey with stress every day. The upper management were extremely unsupportive of them though.

Ilivetosleep · 17/05/2024 07:16

I work in a private school. It's exhausting. I used to work for the local authority. Just the long hours are very tiring.

OldChinaJug · 17/05/2024 07:20

Didimum · 17/05/2024 07:15

On the rare occasion that a parent removes their child from school believing that it’s the schools fault, the problem just transfers elsewhere.

No. My son attended a school where behaviour was highly problematic. My son’s behaviour rapidly declined when he joined, to the point I was being called by the headteacher almost daily. They told me he needed assessing and was put on an unsuccessful one plan. He had come from a school where he experienced no issues. For a year I worked my arse off on his behaviour (which was not a problem at home) and did everything the school asked. Over the course of that time, it just didn’t begin to sit right – I volunteered in the school a number of times and whatever behaviour policy they had was poorly and inconsistently implemented. It was worse than a zoo.

I eventually listened to my gut, that the school culture was at fault and my son was being set up for failure, and moved him. From day 1 at his new school he has not had one behavioural issue, not one phone call and not one pulling aside from the teacher, and he’s received numerous behaviour awards there. I’ve since learnt that his old class has gone from 26 kids to 17, and all of those children who displayed behavioural issues do not anymore. It was 100% the school and there is no way this is a unique case.

I don’t blame the teachers of that class. They looked grey with stress every day. The upper management were extremely unsupportive of them though.

Show quote history

Tbf, I have seen that happen with children who moved into our school on a managed move from elsewhere. I went and had a meeting with the previous school because we weren't seeing any of the reported behaviours.

I'm not disputing that it happens but my experience in my school (which is really good on behaviour) is that, when a child is moved by a parent, the behaviour moves with them. I'm thinking of specific children in specific instances.

That's not going to he the case for every child in every school.

Valeriesimpleton · 17/05/2024 07:21

I don't really agree. It's a crappy job like being a nurse but people choose to do them rather than aim for a career in something more competitive. There is nobody forcing people to do these jobs and there are plenty of other jobs that pay in that range. The holidays ARE a bonus and anyone who says they are not is lying, just admit it. If working in Subway suddenly ly was term time only they would have a queue a mile long. I'm not saying ots hard work and thankless but why choose something like that and why not, if you don't like working in deprived schools, move to the private sector and enjoy the job and the holidays. It just doesn't make sense, why choose a crappy career and then moan constantly?

MumChp · 17/05/2024 07:22

As a nurse I know what you talk about.
I engage less with patients than ever before to keep myself sane.

JustWingItLifeEyelinerEverything · 17/05/2024 07:23

Ketchuponpizza · 17/05/2024 05:21

I am in Europe and also don't have this problem. The students and their families are very respectful towards staff. Of course there are always some parents who are more 'involved' than others, and require a little managing, but generally it's a calm profession in this sense. Respect for others and being able to contribute to our community is a part of our curriculum.

however, my Dsis works at a school in the north and tales that she has to tell are sometimes unbelievable and eye opening. It makes me
never want to return to the UK, in all honesty.

I live in Uk and we don't experience anything as such. And trust me, this doesn't depends on the country but on the specific school. Here is the video of what happened at secondary school in Poland.
Does it mean it is everywhere in Poland like that? Not at all

Kosz na głowie nauczyciela

Prosze sie wypowiadać co wy o tym sądzicie.Prosze mi nie pisać w wiadomościach prywatnych jakieś gówna!Ja to zamieściłem abyście sie wypowiedzieli.

https://youtu.be/DgIe4OfL-zo?si=RX6nCnw-P2_WKe-W

Hesma · 17/05/2024 07:24

Find a new job then! Being a TA is the worst job ever which is why I no longer do it. I’m now careers lead at a secondary school and love it!

llamarammma · 17/05/2024 07:24

Easipeelerie · 17/05/2024 06:57

If you move to work in a private school, it’s like going from night to day. The range of issues are also apparent but not significantly across the board. Most children will be pleasant.

Perhaps their home lives have more security than some coming from the state sector.

90yomakeuproom · 17/05/2024 07:24

I'm going to blow people's minds here.... I work in a school but my child goes to holiday club when I'm off work 🫣

lavenderlou · 17/05/2024 07:25

ichundich · 17/05/2024 05:21

6 year olds calling you a bitch? Yeah right...

Why would you not believe this? We have a Reception child in our school who regularly calls staff F* ing c* * *s. We've done a referral to a PRU but he probably won't get a place.

MumChp · 17/05/2024 07:25

Valeriesimpleton · 17/05/2024 07:21

I don't really agree. It's a crappy job like being a nurse but people choose to do them rather than aim for a career in something more competitive. There is nobody forcing people to do these jobs and there are plenty of other jobs that pay in that range. The holidays ARE a bonus and anyone who says they are not is lying, just admit it. If working in Subway suddenly ly was term time only they would have a queue a mile long. I'm not saying ots hard work and thankless but why choose something like that and why not, if you don't like working in deprived schools, move to the private sector and enjoy the job and the holidays. It just doesn't make sense, why choose a crappy career and then moan constantly?

@Valeriesimpleton

It was so different like 10 years ago being a teacher or a nurse. We didn't choose this and I don't recommend any young people to do teacher or nurse training. Not worth it. At all.

saveforthat · 17/05/2024 07:26

Gdn1 · 17/05/2024 06:43

Work in a supermarket when we are struggling with staff shortages, been told to lose 150 hours every 4 weeks (yet short staffed!), get moaned at by the customers- many (mostly elderly) don’t understand that we are more multi skilled than 20 years ago that staff did till work all shift

Sick to death of the rudeness, impatience, abuse and bullying from customers. A few of my colleagues, myself and managers will refuse to serve rude customers.

There needs to be some awareness to show customers that they the ONES that make staff LEAVE retail due to their behaviour. I have said that to a few rude customers that people like you are making staff leave in the entire retail industry. Then for many shops, like mine staff are not being replaced as remember we have 150 hours to lose each 4 weeks.

Then don’t start me on elderly, retired customers who shop on Saturdays. I have seen working aged customers telling the old dears that they 45 hours a week “shop then!” or leave Saturdays to those who worked all week. Some elderly customers just come into our store to buy a lottery ticket. You visit the newsagents and mini supermarkets for that. Plus have pointed out to customers that you can buy your tickets up to 6 days in advance. Seen a few customers buying all their tickets at once

Then because of customers being rude, impatient etc. When shops actually recruit (what’s that word?) or a new supermarket opens, they struggle with getting staff. There’s a supermarket opening next week in a town 12 miles away from me in a former Wilko plus two other shops - one closed and the other relocated. Still struggling to fill the vacancies. Well who wants to work in retail dealing with horrible people?

There are some lovely customers but alas, they are becoming a dying breed- yes these customers have died. Noticed a house down my street is up for sale and thought I haven’t seen the lovely couple in there for ages. From speaking to their neighbour, the man died and his DW is now living with her daughter about 75 miles from here.

Most places are horrible to work at due to horrible people, horrible conditions, crap pay, targets which are difficult to achieve.

More needs to be done with rudeness from customers

Edited

I don't know where to start with this "old dears". Fuck off. If you sell lottery tickets, why shouldn't they pop in to buy one, it may be their nearest shop and make up your mind if the elderly are the rudest or the nicest (because the elderly are the ones that are dieing.

JustWingItLifeEyelinerEverything · 17/05/2024 07:27

ichundich · 17/05/2024 05:21

6 year olds calling you a bitch? Yeah right...

I can only imagine that it is some EHCP child and she is an assistant to a kid with behavioural issues. But the fact that she says that it is many times per day suggests to me that maybe she is in a special school? In the school my son attends (South West London) I heard about one incident and a child was suspended for a week. Even between each other kids rarely use that language And certainly not several times ber day. Yes, there are instances of pushing each other especially when queuing on a daily basis.

llamarammma · 17/05/2024 07:28

Hesma · 17/05/2024 07:24

Find a new job then! Being a TA is the worst job ever which is why I no longer do it. I’m now careers lead at a secondary school and love it!

I’ve often thought the role of TA needs to he reevaluated. It’s definitely being abused, currently with TAs being used as teacher replacements.

A false economy.

JustWingItLifeEyelinerEverything · 17/05/2024 07:29

lavenderlou · 17/05/2024 07:25

Why would you not believe this? We have a Reception child in our school who regularly calls staff F* ing c* * *s. We've done a referral to a PRU but he probably won't get a place.

Edited
Show quote history

But this was a specific child with issues. Not like a widely common case coming from every other child at school.

saveforthat · 17/05/2024 07:30

user4692821 · 16/05/2024 20:46

@SquirrelSoShiny something is definitely going wrong, and I fear that in 10 years time when these children start entering the work force is it going to become even more apparent! There is a constant ethos at the moment that children with behaviour issues have SEN issues etc. It's a common occurrence that I speak to parents about behaviour and they will say 'well it's not their fault, they have ADHd' or similar (when there is no diagnosis, I am not talking about children with diagnosis's) . The children then repeat this constantly in school. We are teaching the next generation that they can act however they please and there are no consequences

Yep, this is it. You only have to read these threads to see how many people say they (or their children) have ADHD autism or some other issue. This seems to excuse everything nowadays.

Einwegflasche · 17/05/2024 07:31

90yomakeuproom · 17/05/2024 07:24

I'm going to blow people's minds here.... I work in a school but my child goes to holiday club when I'm off work 🫣

Do what works for you and your family! Holiday clubs aren't just childcare - some kids (and their parents) love them, the activities, the routine etc.

Einwegflasche · 17/05/2024 07:32

JustWingItLifeEyelinerEverything · 17/05/2024 07:29

But this was a specific child with issues. Not like a widely common case coming from every other child at school.

Show quote history

I've heard quite a few people say things like this, in real life and online, so it's quite a few children actually.

Swipe left for the next trending thread