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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I know it's been done to death but I don't think people realise how hard it is to work in a school!

346 replies

user4692821 · 16/05/2024 20:37

I work in a small village primary school in the north. I'm so used to hearing people saying "oh I'd love to work in a school so I could have the holidays off" or something along the lines of "well you can't complain as you get so much holidays with the kids" etc.

My week normally consists of:

Being called a bch 3/4 times a day
Told to shut the fk up at least once a day
Being punched
Spat at

And that's just some of the 'bad' incidents. It's not mentioning the other more 'minor' incidents that happen constantly through the day.

I work with 6/7 year olds. In a mainstream school. It's not uncommon, most TA's have similar in their classes. When we meet people from other schools they say the same.

Yet we are constantly told to be grateful we have a job that gives us time off for our kids. I 100% get that it's lucky we can have the holidays off so we don't have to pay for childcare. However what I ask myself everyday is: is this worth my mental health? Because honestly (apart from NHS jobs or similar) where would you go in to work and expected to be treated like this and paid minimum wage?

OP posts:
DyslexicPoster · 19/05/2024 18:04

It's not pushy parent ts who get ehcps. How do you get a ehcp? Can you buy one? No you can't. They are either issued by the LA or court ordered.

There's is no money for ehcps where I live. No one gets one. Dome parents accept that abd some don't. Buy there is no way to just aquire a ehcp without a SEN civil servant expert saying so.

albertoross · 19/05/2024 18:05

user4692821 · 16/05/2024 20:37

I work in a small village primary school in the north. I'm so used to hearing people saying "oh I'd love to work in a school so I could have the holidays off" or something along the lines of "well you can't complain as you get so much holidays with the kids" etc.

My week normally consists of:

Being called a bch 3/4 times a day
Told to shut the fk up at least once a day
Being punched
Spat at

And that's just some of the 'bad' incidents. It's not mentioning the other more 'minor' incidents that happen constantly through the day.

I work with 6/7 year olds. In a mainstream school. It's not uncommon, most TA's have similar in their classes. When we meet people from other schools they say the same.

Yet we are constantly told to be grateful we have a job that gives us time off for our kids. I 100% get that it's lucky we can have the holidays off so we don't have to pay for childcare. However what I ask myself everyday is: is this worth my mental health? Because honestly (apart from NHS jobs or similar) where would you go in to work and expected to be treated like this and paid minimum wage?

Don't do it then. No ones forcing you

albertoross · 19/05/2024 18:08

user4692821 · 17/05/2024 06:33

@ichundich actually f*ing bitch is much more common day to day. If you think this doesn't happen now at that age then I suggest you try volunteering for a day in a school. It's not every child in the class, most are lovely. It's the few whose parents also speak to us like that.

@TomeTome I never said we work harder than anybody else. It's just frustrating that some people seem to think that TAs have a cushy time because of our work hours or having the holidays off. When in reality we are in minimum wage jobs and get abused on a daily basis.

I don't think anyone thinks you have a cushy time but having the holidays off makes it a lot easier if you have kids

albertoross · 19/05/2024 18:11

user4692821 · 16/05/2024 20:53

@Confrontayshunme this 100%! I get home and my DH gets annoyed because I can't chat, I just need to sit by myself in a quiet room for an hour or so before I can even begin to unwind. Luckily my DC are a bit older now but it definitely takes a toll on who I am as a mother and wife!

Then why do you do it? You really don't have to. It's ruining your kid's life

spanieleyes · 19/05/2024 19:21

@albertoross
Because, despite all the issues, the abuse- both verbal and sometimes physical, the hard work and emotional toil
, it can still be a wonderful job. But increasingly teachers and teaching assistants ARE leaving, we can't recruit either locally at the moment. Yes, the holidays are a bonus ( although TA posts are paid pro rata so most need to find some sort of work, especially in the summer holidays to compensate) but there comes a point for many where the issues outweigh the benefits. That's when people leave.

Heirian · 19/05/2024 19:24

I'm pretty sure that teachers would once have known that the plural of diagnosis is diagnoses, not "diagnosis's."

Heirian · 19/05/2024 19:26

@Josette77 teachers are paid and treated significantly better in Canada than the UK. DH is Canadian and he is shocked at what my mum (primary teacher) goes through for her job.

OldChinaJug · 19/05/2024 19:38

Heirian · 19/05/2024 19:24

I'm pretty sure that teachers would once have known that the plural of diagnosis is diagnoses, not "diagnosis's."

I'm pretty sure that most people would know the difference between a Teacher and a Teaching Assistant but here we are...

VeterinaryCareAssistant · 19/05/2024 19:49

Chickenuggetsticks · 16/05/2024 21:16

I really feel for you, I wasn’t that sympathetic to teachers a few years ago but honestly some of the utter disrespectful shit you put up with is extraordinary. I think we just have a lot of really shit parents around tbh, people can blame poverty etc but many of us grew up with not much and absolutely knew that if we called our teacher anything other than “yes miss” our parents would have gone utterly mental. It doesn’t bear thinking about what my mum would have done to me if I had told a teacher to “fuck off”.

But that's just it @Chickenuggetsticks the kids' parents won't do anything at all. Maybe confiscate their tech for a few hours if that.

My arse would have been sore for a week and I'd have been made to write an apology letter, not that I'd have sworn at a teacher in the first place.

Leah5678 · 20/05/2024 11:13

ZeroOne · 19/05/2024 12:26

I will admit to the cardinal sin of only having read all of OP’s posts and the first few pages so perhaps this has been answered but… why do head teachers allow this behaviour? What is it that disincentivises them from backing teachers up and being loose-handed with exclusions? Is it enrolment targets or the local authority or what?

As far as I'm aware it looks bad on their Ofsted to expel children? They're supposed to magically transform Damian the omen children into perfect angels, which might make some sense for primary schools but it's completely unreasonable for secondary schools imo

BreakdanceWindmill · 20/05/2024 12:32

TizerorFizz · 19/05/2024 15:41

A lot of church schools effectively select the nicest dc by insisting on church attendance. This means other schools get a bigger share of disruptive dc.

The culture of a school matters. Parents don't prepare dc well for school and expect the schools to do too much. A HT on Radio 4 suggested too many DC were getting EHC plans. The ones with pushy parents. Other dc don't get what they need so their needs are unmet and often they are in deprived areas so the schools struggle. Many need school adjustments but don't get them.

I do think most schools are good but the teaching profession in primary is largely female and they are working part time when they can. I do wonder if more men in a primary school would help.

Do you know how hard it is to get an EHCP? You can be as pushy as you like but they are incredibly difficult to get. Schools can apply and push, and do.

T1Dmama · 20/05/2024 13:04

Honestly the way things are going and kids are acting there won’t be anyone going into these roles in years
to Come.
Society is going to have real issues with employing teachers and police.
I certainly couldn’t be A teacher, as would refuse to teach anyone who treated me in the way described … I wouldn’t tolerate being called names and spat at… they’d have to sit in the heads office as they wouldn’t step foot in my class again.

vivainsomnia · 20/05/2024 13:16

It's so odd to read this thread, where the majority agree that poor parenting is a main cause to the disruption and behaviour of pupils.

Yet in most threads where a poster complains about the behaviour of children outside of school, and outrage erupts in support of the parent.

Thread about someone complaining of poor behaviour in shops or restaurants, people need to appreciate how hard it is for the parent, how it's not their fault, how children will be children, how society nowadays doesn't value children any longer and how hard done by children are nowadays.

Duplicate this to children in parks, public transport, holiday places, their own gardens... It's no surprise that behaviour is bad at school.

Parents try so hard to engage in 'gentle discipling' that they forget how hard and exhausting discipling' children is, let alone when you have to spend the time and energy that gentle disciplining demand. Time and energy that mist parents don't have so that gentle disciplining becomes lazy disciplining.

Riversideandrelax · 20/05/2024 14:06

isthesolution · 19/05/2024 08:14

That sounds awful.

I agree that parenting is often part of the problem BUT I also blame the government/local authority.

What should happen, in my opinion, is there should be consequences for both the children and the parents for this behaviour. There is no support for schools to suspend/ expel pupils - it's all about that not being in their best interests, never mind the best interests of staff and other pupils!

There's an increased assumption that schools should teach everything too - including potty training, eating with a knife and fork, manners, getting dressed - these are things that should have been taught at home before the child started school. How can we be expected to teach actual lessons to 30 kids if we also have 30 nappies to change!

I honestly don't believe that every DC starts reception in nappies.

FlakyScroller · 20/05/2024 18:24

Riversideandrelax · 20/05/2024 14:06

I honestly don't believe that every DC starts reception in nappies.

Show quote history

We have 4 in nappies in reception. Not a huge amount but still enough to take a adult away from the class a fair amount of time.
When I started teaching all children had to be toilet trained and if there were special needs a parent had to come in and change them.

savoycabbage · 20/05/2024 20:04

I think that the nappy issue has a far bigger impact than people realise. In a school nursery the ratio is one adult to 13 children but now one of those adults is pretty much changing nappies or dealing with toileting all of the time.

Which means that the other adults can't work with a small group of children which is such an important and valuable part of nursery and reception.

It's also quite soul destroying to do all of that training and plan and set up lovely activities only to be changing nappies for hours.

bumblebee1000 · 20/05/2024 20:07

Leah5678 · 20/05/2024 11:13

As far as I'm aware it looks bad on their Ofsted to expel children? They're supposed to magically transform Damian the omen children into perfect angels, which might make some sense for primary schools but it's completely unreasonable for secondary schools imo

Show quote history

I think it does, when i was teaching, left early retired a few years ago....we had to battle to get one annoying little shit removed....had some stupid name like Dee Jay and had a swarm of outreach workers.....the whole theatre, he manipultated all of them..... to persuade us to keep him despite all the meetings and warnings.....finally got rid of him. The mum was also good at manupulating a whole team of staff and endless meetings for hours and hours. I guess she didnt want to discipline or deal with him.

TomeTome · 20/05/2024 20:31

bumblebee1000 · 20/05/2024 20:07

I think it does, when i was teaching, left early retired a few years ago....we had to battle to get one annoying little shit removed....had some stupid name like Dee Jay and had a swarm of outreach workers.....the whole theatre, he manipultated all of them..... to persuade us to keep him despite all the meetings and warnings.....finally got rid of him. The mum was also good at manupulating a whole team of staff and endless meetings for hours and hours. I guess she didnt want to discipline or deal with him.

Show quote history

I think retirement was probably best for everyone.

Nave · 24/05/2024 15:15

cassgate · 16/05/2024 21:49

I have been a TA since 2014 and agree it has got worse. In my opinion most of the problems are caused by the parents. They fall broadly into 3 camps. 1) The piss poor parent who couldn’t give a toss and will defend their child and not accept any responsibility as it’s all the schools fault or they have ADHD or insert any other type of self diagnosed SEN. No, this child is a product of their upbringing. They have no boundaries at home so they think it’s ok to do as they please at school and schools have very little power because fixed term exclusions are frowned upon. 2) The overly invested parent who complains about every minor issue. These parents are keyboard warriors and will e mail daily something or another and demand regular meetings with the teacher, headteacher. In their eyes their child is the only relevant child in the school and they do not lie, ignore the rules, are not capable of being deliberately unkind to their peers.These parents are quick to want instant punishments given to other children for minor infringements but will not accept the same treatment for their own offspring because they would never do that. 3) The last ones are the smallest group and are the nice, measured parents who have firm boundaries, high expectations of behaviour, respect for the adults in school and do not think their child is always right. They genuinely appreciate the time and effort that goes into helping their children develop both academically and socially/emotionally. These parents are why I am still around. Interestingly, most of the SEN parents fall into this group.

A very good summary

Conkersinautumn · 25/05/2024 21:18

NickyT64 · 19/05/2024 00:28

You are punched and spat at, told to fuck off on a regular basis by 6 year olds???

Yes. I'm lunchtime playground supervision. Yes, the swearing is literally every single day, several times directly at me in an hour and a half (across the primary age range).

The punches and kicks are at least once a week, at me - dont even ask how many fights we break up between children.
The spitting fortunately less common for.me, only three times in this academic year . Fairly average school with a mix of children with different backgrounds.

mikado1 · 25/05/2024 21:31

Sounds horrific. I am in Ireland, work in an inner city disadvantaged school and have none of the above. Issues in the playground, yes, but only for a small percentage of students and quickly sorted. I hear of this behaviour in UK schools so often. What is going on?

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