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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Men still get away with this. Why?

163 replies

Utmilj · 16/05/2024 10:21

Yes I probably sound bitter. Yes I could have chosen a better man to have children with… obviously didn’t think he’d be a deadbeat when we were discussing having a family together. But that accusation about women ‘choosing the right partner’ is a good way to start this post because it’s a very good example of how woman are always to blame and men get away with doing nothing, ignoring their responsibilities.

My situation… met who I thought was a lovely man, decent job, income, stable (or seemed to be). Said all the right things. I was pregnant after a few years and he left me after 7 months. I gave birth alone and funded all our child’s things entirely myself until the cms claim came into effect when ds was 7 months old. It took cms 7 months to chase him for payment. I was lucky, I am from a wealthy family, but why the fuck should women have to wait seven months for payment from a deadbeat? It’s disgusting.

Again I am lucky that he earns well so I have just about enough maintenance for it to be objectively satisfactory and covers nursery costs. For women claiming from men who earn much less, they are pushed into extremely difficult financial situations. Childcare costs all fall on them. Why? Why do we let this happen? It’s appalling. Women are told it’s a ‘lifestyle choice’ to use a nursery if they are a resident parent. No, nursery is a requirement if parents are to work.

And many resident parents are not full resident parents by choice. Lots of men enjoy a fortnightly visit to their child or children. They are quite happy with that. The woman just has to accept it, accept all the responsibility, the financial burden and the time. If they complain, they are such a terrible mother! How can a mother want to complain about doing it all because after all that’s their little baby! But men… men aren’t even faced with that question.

Yes, women could hand their child to social services. They don’t HAVE to parent their child. But again, imagine the outcry. What sort of woman would do that! When many dads have done just that, but they have the insurance policy of the woman who will pick up the slack and protects them from the shame of them personally handing their child over to social care.

Ds’s dad sees him. On his terms. When it suits. When he’s not too busy or he’s had time to relax first. He does what he likes and gets away with it. He focuses of his career. He likes the kudos. All while being a deadbeat.

As I said, I could be bitter (and I probably am a bit) but due to financial protection I have been lucky to not feel the full impact of this behaviour by a man. But this experience has made me realise just how shocking things are for women. Why are they still able to get away with this?

OP posts:
PalomaJaneintheDales · 16/05/2024 17:37

LakeTiticaca · 16/05/2024 16:27

How do you know the mother didn't end the relationship? I knew a girl who got pregnant in her late teens. Father was the same age. He asked her to marry him, worked hard to pull together a deposit to buy a house. They married and had 2 children. After a few years she decided she didn't love him anymore, kicked him out of the house he worked hard to pay for, and installed a new boyfriend. This poor young man was still having to pay for everything while she was enjoying her new life in his home. Her parents were absolutely furious about her behaviour and refused to speak to her for years.

So while we rightly criticise some men who choose to leave their family, its not always by choice, some women can be just as bad

I work as a supervisor in a facility of over 250 men under 40. I know them all well (and like almost all of them) and they often want to chat on their shift break. None of them wants to get married or have children for the reasons you state.

Utmilj · 16/05/2024 18:12

CoatRack · 16/05/2024 17:19

His body his choice?

@CoatRack a shitty, deplorable choice

OP posts:
theonlygirl · 16/05/2024 18:23

vidflex · 16/05/2024 11:20

It's appalling! If women just walked away after a relationship broke down and left her kids with the dad, and popped by once a week to take them for a McDonald's can you imagine how people would view her!.

My sister was with her dh for 15 years when he suddenly became distant and checked out. He finally told her the old line "I love you but I'm not in love with you" he wanted to end things as he needed space to think things through.

My sister packed a bag and left him right there on the spot. Came to stay with me. She had explained to her boys what was happening and she would pick them up Friday night and bring them back on Sunday.

Her husband was livid. How dare she abandon her kids. She quickly pointed out that's exactly what he was about to do. The very least she now expected was 50/50 custody as soon as she found suitable accommodation.

He tried to win her back when he realised he wasnt walking off into the sunset a free man but he'd been cheating and it was over. We helped her get a new place sorted and she's had the boys 50/50 for a few years but they are mid teens now and mostly want to stay with her.

God I fucking love your sister If only more women felt able to do this or were in a position to at the outset. The assumption from some men that they leave and just pop in when it suits them disgusts me.

Scallops · 16/05/2024 18:28

I suggested to xh that we each lived with the dc for 6 months of the year - the look on his face!

Then he had the decency to start feeling guilty. Didn't stop him buggering off though.

Yetmorebeanstocount · 16/05/2024 18:36

It is a mistake to encourage young women to think in terms "equality" when it comes to being parents. The young women then have false expectations of what men will do.
By all means, women should have equality in law, in finance, in education, in the workplace, etc. but when it comes to parenthood the mother is the one who does most (or does it all).
I don't think it is possible to change the nature of men in this respect. Yes some love parenting and do it well, but most don't.
Far better to warn young women: don't have a baby unless you are fully prepared to be a single mother, or end up effectively a single mother but with a non-parenting man who lives with you.

Yetmorebeanstocount · 16/05/2024 18:39

PalomaJaneintheDales · 16/05/2024 17:37

I work as a supervisor in a facility of over 250 men under 40. I know them all well (and like almost all of them) and they often want to chat on their shift break. None of them wants to get married or have children for the reasons you state.

This is the fault of extreme capitalism and a totally dysfunctional housing market.

If an man on minimum wage could afford to pay a mortgage for his ex-wife and also pay for a second mortgage for himself, then society wouldn't be in the state of collapsing birth rates and worry about population decline.

Utmilj · 16/05/2024 18:42

Yetmorebeanstocount · 16/05/2024 18:39

This is the fault of extreme capitalism and a totally dysfunctional housing market.

If an man on minimum wage could afford to pay a mortgage for his ex-wife and also pay for a second mortgage for himself, then society wouldn't be in the state of collapsing birth rates and worry about population decline.

@Yetmorebeanstocount

blaming capitalism for deadbeat dads… I think I’ve really heard it all now 😂

OP posts:
Runningbird43 · 16/05/2024 18:45

theonlygirl · 16/05/2024 18:23

God I fucking love your sister If only more women felt able to do this or were in a position to at the outset. The assumption from some men that they leave and just pop in when it suits them disgusts me.

You need to be in a very strong financial position to do this though. You need to be able to rehouse yourself, and you also weaken your likelihood of getting a better share of the house.

for a woman who’s gone PT or is a sahm, she’s not going to be able to walk out, rent or buy a place suitable for kids, and leave him in the family home. And pay maintenance if their ex is RP.

the person staying in the family home has a better chance of a financial split that favours them, as they and the kids will not be made homeless.

women can be very vulnerable without an income. So many happily give up work to do all the parenting, then seem surprised when they split and still get to do all the parenting.

Runningbird43 · 16/05/2024 18:48

Yetmorebeanstocount · 16/05/2024 18:39

This is the fault of extreme capitalism and a totally dysfunctional housing market.

If an man on minimum wage could afford to pay a mortgage for his ex-wife and also pay for a second mortgage for himself, then society wouldn't be in the state of collapsing birth rates and worry about population decline.

Why should a man need to be able to afford a mortgage for his ex wife and himself?

she should be able to afford her own mortgage. Women are allowed to own their own homes now.

CoatRack · 16/05/2024 18:49

Utmilj · 16/05/2024 18:12

@CoatRack a shitty, deplorable choice

Good thing we live in a patriarchy else he wouldn't be made to pay your nursery fees.

theonlygirl · 16/05/2024 18:50

Runningbird43 · 16/05/2024 18:45

You need to be in a very strong financial position to do this though. You need to be able to rehouse yourself, and you also weaken your likelihood of getting a better share of the house.

for a woman who’s gone PT or is a sahm, she’s not going to be able to walk out, rent or buy a place suitable for kids, and leave him in the family home. And pay maintenance if their ex is RP.

the person staying in the family home has a better chance of a financial split that favours them, as they and the kids will not be made homeless.

women can be very vulnerable without an income. So many happily give up work to do all the parenting, then seem surprised when they split and still get to do all the parenting.

I agree. which I'd why I said I wish more women could do this. I know the reality is they can't. plus they don't just abandon their kids the way men seem to be able to.

Scallops · 16/05/2024 18:51

I don't think it'll change until men start calling each other out.

Atitudes can change very fast. In my lifetime we've almost done a 180 on drink-driving, and smoking has gone from cool to a bit disgusting.

It could happen if the will was there.

Howbizarre22 · 16/05/2024 18:51

Here here!

And yet there people on MN saying they don’t get why we moan about men on here.

Yetmorebeanstocount · 16/05/2024 18:54

Utmilj · 16/05/2024 18:42

@Yetmorebeanstocount

blaming capitalism for deadbeat dads… I think I’ve really heard it all now 😂

No, blaming capitalism for why young men are reluctant to commit in the first place - I was responding to a previous poster.

HelloWorldItsNiceToMeetYou · 16/05/2024 18:54

Mackmacking · 16/05/2024 13:54

met who I thought was a lovely man,

I find that a lot of people mean that he was good looking, financially independent or wealthy, educated and other people gravitated towards him. They had very few indications he was genuinely a compassionate amd conscientious human.

How patronising.
I was with my ex husband for 10 years when our first child was born. We had talked at length about who would do what, how things would work. When it came down to it he just always had an excuse.

Utmilj · 16/05/2024 18:56

CoatRack · 16/05/2024 18:49

Good thing we live in a patriarchy else he wouldn't be made to pay your nursery fees.

@CoatRack

I don’t go to nursery. Our child does. They’re our child’s nursery fees.

OP posts:
Yetmorebeanstocount · 16/05/2024 19:00

Runningbird43 · 16/05/2024 18:48

Why should a man need to be able to afford a mortgage for his ex wife and himself?

she should be able to afford her own mortgage. Women are allowed to own their own homes now.

Because she has young children and can't work full time, or can't afford the childcare, or has had to take a knock to her career so can't earn as much, etc.
It is all part of a big knot of problems.

In an ideal world, women would not find their careers suffer after taking maternity leave, they would be able to afford childcare, employers would be happy to have lots of staff on part-time hours, men would do half the housework and mental load, half the childcare, half the days off work for sick children, etc. etc.

But I just can't see it happening. We are fighting a losing battle if that is what we are really aiming for.
Some lucky women get this kind of equal relationship, but most women won't have this. The men just don't want it.

Atethehalloweenchocs · 16/05/2024 19:01

CoatRack · 16/05/2024 18:49

Good thing we live in a patriarchy else he wouldn't be made to pay your nursery fees.

Is that a dig at my post? What point are you trying to make exactly? Men should not have to pay for anything?

Slav80 · 16/05/2024 19:09

Haven’t read all responses but I think on a primary level, we are animals, the males just shag and leave, the females are left to raise the little ones, on social level as you say OP you can give the kid to social services and I am sure some women do for various reasons, but most don’t, because physically and mentally they can’t imagine being without their children, it’s just a fact. In my mind, as long as there’s mother’s love, there’s hope for this world. It’s not fair on us but it’s fair on the kids not to leave them as well, and to hell with the bastards dads, it’s literally their loss.

Utmilj · 16/05/2024 19:19

Slav80 · 16/05/2024 19:09

Haven’t read all responses but I think on a primary level, we are animals, the males just shag and leave, the females are left to raise the little ones, on social level as you say OP you can give the kid to social services and I am sure some women do for various reasons, but most don’t, because physically and mentally they can’t imagine being without their children, it’s just a fact. In my mind, as long as there’s mother’s love, there’s hope for this world. It’s not fair on us but it’s fair on the kids not to leave them as well, and to hell with the bastards dads, it’s literally their loss.

@Slav80 🤍🤍

OP posts:
User2460177 · 16/05/2024 19:20

notanotherrokabag · 16/05/2024 14:24

No, but if women stopped having babies with men without the protection of marriage that would be a start......

A start for what? Isn’t that just blaming women for men’s failings? You can’t force a man to marry you and marriage isn’t in many women’s best interests.

tracktrail · 16/05/2024 19:23

Yetmorebeanstocount · 16/05/2024 18:39

This is the fault of extreme capitalism and a totally dysfunctional housing market.

If an man on minimum wage could afford to pay a mortgage for his ex-wife and also pay for a second mortgage for himself, then society wouldn't be in the state of collapsing birth rates and worry about population decline.

If a man on a minimum wage could afford a place big enough to have his kids it might help. If they end up in an HMO, they can't have kids to stay. If they find somewhere bigger they can't get rent help as children's primary residence is with mum. Housing is definitely a problem for everyone.

SingleMummyHere1 · 16/05/2024 19:36

MidnightMeltdown · 16/05/2024 11:33

A few years ago, before I met dp, I had a go at online dating. The number of men on there with really young children was astonishing. Not a chance in hell would I date a man who had fucked off and left his young kids.

Perhaps naively, I was surprised that there were women out there who would date men with very young children. My ex fucked off when our DC was only a few months old and got with a woman who then got pregnant to him within 12 months. Less than that in fact.

If I met a man who was separated from his wife/partner and he had a tiny baby, I'd be doing the decent thing and telling him to get on his bike, right back to his responsibilities.

Sharontheodopolodous · 16/05/2024 20:08

My ex has paid (to date-27 years)

drumroll

£1

He has the nerve to tell everyone it's my fault 'his children' won't see him as I've poisoned them against him and that I've had enough of 'his money' over the years

The truth is,he left me for a 14 year old,got her pregnant (rape but was never 'done' for it even when a dna test proved he was the father) and landed himself in prison for drug dealing (and I was told by a snotty csa advisor that if he was in prison,he didn't have to pay)

In the middle of all this,he dragged me through the courts (a controlling tactic) which was the worst experience ever-i was told he didn't have to pay as 'It's up to you to provide for them' (sod the fact they are half his)

Csa where worse than useless-they couldn't find him (I gave his address),need more info-i handed most over,couldn't enforce payment-he claimed he couldn't afford to pay (while sat on his 5* holiday abroad,while I was scraping the money together to feed the kids) so they settled for writing to him once a year and not bothering to follow up when he just tore them up and laughed

Oddly,he's never short of girlfriends who buy into the 'evil ex who won't let me see my kids' bullshit

His whole family know he didn't pay but tell everyone 'she only got herself pregnant so she could claim his money'

I would have been the talk of harley street if I'd got myself pregnant with no help from him

Runningbird43 · 16/05/2024 20:25

Yetmorebeanstocount · 16/05/2024 19:00

Because she has young children and can't work full time, or can't afford the childcare, or has had to take a knock to her career so can't earn as much, etc.
It is all part of a big knot of problems.

In an ideal world, women would not find their careers suffer after taking maternity leave, they would be able to afford childcare, employers would be happy to have lots of staff on part-time hours, men would do half the housework and mental load, half the childcare, half the days off work for sick children, etc. etc.

But I just can't see it happening. We are fighting a losing battle if that is what we are really aiming for.
Some lucky women get this kind of equal relationship, but most women won't have this. The men just don't want it.

So if you’re married why are childcare costs the woman’s?

so often we see “my wages don’t cover childcare” as a reason to give up work. What about his?

why aren’t men doing half the housework and child raising? Why aren’t they taking days off work when the kids are sick?

because the woman has given up work or reduced her hours to take on those responsibilities. When his job is the main or sole income, he can’t be risking it taking days off when he has a wife available.

If we don’t want to be left with a disproportionate burden of childcare and domestic duties we need to stop taking them on. Both partners go part time if a sahP is decided to be the best option. Or accept things will be tight during the childcare years but will massively ease with two working adults in the future. or in the case of a split be massively easier when the precedent is set for 50:50 of the shared care, and both partners are financially self sufficient.