To video call racist unapologetic SIL to DDs 1st birthday?

[ILikeEggsAnd]

Hi
A bit of background. My SILs husband started to say mean racially charged things against me. Btw that’s the first time I ever met them face to face so it’s not like I did anything to upset them to deserve it! The worst part was my DH said absolutely nothing. Thanks to my DH being silent, I cut contact completely with SIL and her family as although she didn’t speak anything, she is defending her hubby saying he was just being “inquisitive about my culture”.

DDs first birthday is round the corner. Should I let the SIL at least video call on her birthday or should I just cut her out? I just feel if they couldn’t respect me, they don’t deserve seeing my child.

Sounds like you were the centre of attention for all the wrong reasons; has he really been so sheltered in his own life that he can't understand other peoples backgrounds are entirely different to his own? It's not your job to open his mind.
If it were me I'd continue with no contact. I hate it when people say; 'oh it's just their sense of humour' 'you need to get to know them better' etc.

Don't allow yourself to be belittled and insulted.
And dont allow your child to be either.

It doesn't sound racist to me but I am white so I don't get to tell non white people what is racist and what isn't.
I would just do nothing at all, if your H wants to set anything up then let him but don't be a part of it

“You come from a poor country. Why are you in Europe?, Do you live in a slum?, Do people sit on top of the trains?”

I come from a "poor" country and lived here for over 30yrs and if anyone said that to me I'd be hurt and offended. So I'm saying OP is not being unreasonable to view this as racist. I've never experienced direct racism so perhaps I have been lucky or I give them the benefit of the doubt, but if someone said the above to me I'd be very cross.
And you SIL and DH are also in the wrong for going along with it.

I'm going to go ahead and assume you're from India. The picture this man would have had of India is crowded trains, slums/shanty towns etc. You of course know that there are very affluent areas of India and a lot of Indian people have considerable wealth. But they don't tend to show up in social media photos. People from India who are over hear generally tend to be wealthy and well educated. The poor people are still stuck in the slums in India.

I'm Irish. Look at a globe, Ireland looks tiny. During "the troubles" in Northern Ireland anytime we spoke to anyone not Irish, specifically American, sometimes English, we'd be asked what it was like living in an area with constant bombs and shootings. They honestly believed that the entirety of Ireland was being bombed with everyone shooting each other. The troubles in the north may as well have been happening in Norway for all the effect it had on our day to day lives.

I think it was clumsy and ignorant (as in uneducated) but I'm not sure it was deliberately racist.

Also, do you expect your husband to stop talking to his sister over this?

I would let your DH have whatever relationship he wants with her. Let him be the one to arrange any communication between them. He's capable of video calling her if he wishes. You don't have to facilitate it just be sure you're the woman!

"Clumsy interest". I honestly despair sometimes...

I think asking "why are you on Europe" is deliberately racist, but you do you🙄

OP MN loves to downplay racism, accuse people of being oversensitive and misinterpreting stuff etc. So you may not get much understanding on here. Racism can be about a tone, or a look, and other subtleties. It is not always about people coming out with a racist slur.

I would trust your instincts. Your husband should have your back.

Yes, what SIL's husband said was completly inappropriate, but I would be more bothered by my husband not stepping in and calling him out.
Ultimately he is the one you chose (and he chose you) and he is the one with a duty to stand up for you.

It could have been clumsy ignorance.
I would give them another chance because they are close relatives.
I would invite them to see DD on her birthday; video calls are lost on babies..unless your DH is to be the main talker.

You don't need to spend time with people who insult you but maybe they will quickly learn. You need to inform your DH what you expect from him too.

He sounds a bit stupid if that's what he really thinks, I guess he may have swallowed that stereotype whole. Did you explain how narrow minded that was? if it was a one off I'd give him the benefit of ignorance and stupidity and set him straight. If it continued then he's a racist.

OP I trust your ability to recognise racism in what was said to you. And I respect your decision to cut contact with your dh's bil and dsis on this basis.
What I don't understand is why your focus is not on the fact that your dh has behaved exactly the same way as his sister!! For me, his actions (or lack of them) are even worse, as he is failing to support and protect his ownwife and child.

I’m shocked at the downplaying of racism. What BIL said isn’t interest - clumsy or genuine. Best case scenario is that he is too stupid to realise that the images that he’s seen isn’t everyone.

Has your h really not said or done anything about the comments ? That’s a far bigger consideration than a video call which is pretty pointless for a 1 year old who will be seen the way you are.

Where is your DH in all this? It's his responsibility to maintain relations with his side.

You don't have to have a relationship with his sisters husband (who this is all about). You don't even need to have a relationship with his sister, your husband does.

Best case scenario is that he is too stupid to realise that the images that he’s seen isn’t everyone.

So maybe he's stupid rather than deliberately racist and by discussing and educating him he will be unlikely to make the same comments again?

People say MN downplays racism etc. Racism exists. Absolutely it does. Covert and overt. But sometimes an idiot who doesn't mean to be racist says something that upsets another. Not everyone is intelligent and civilised! So assuming that people are always being deliberately racist rather than being simply stupid is also unhelpful.

I'm sure people who live in countries other than their own often get asked how/why they ended up there. If you move from one part of the UK to another you'll get asked about it in conversation. I'm not claiming the BIL wasn't insensitive and ignorant. And maybe he was racist. But cutting her SIL out for doing exactly what her own DH did seems excessive.

You have a 1 year old child. You seem to want your SIL to have some kind of relationship with them. You're assuming she's going to want to video call on the birthday. You have a very very very long life ahead of you with these people. You either cut them out because you believe they are both racist. And by cutting them out that means zero contact. Ever. Or you explain to everyone involved that you were deeply offended by the comments and suggest that BIL educates himself better, and then you move on with the family relationship.

Yes

Clumsy interest. Poorly worded questions to try and understand something of where OP came from

I hate this "you don't have to educate others" idea. Hearing about other's experiences and having first hand stories is EXACTLY how people best learn

Answer his clumsy questions with honesty. Then, if he continues to make such remarks or worse, you cut him off. But maybe you'll find a connection. Or at least challenge a bigot

@ButWhatAboutTheBees people are tired of challenging bigots because the bigots keep being bigoted. We’re tired of being the educators. It's 2024 FFS. There’s no point. Never wrestle with a pig. You get dirty and the pig enjoys itself.

But not everyone asking questions is a bigot

And by being aggressive and unresponsive to someone who isn't a bigot you can end up turning them towards bigotry because their genuine curiosity is met with a wall and anger

People's experiences are one of the best learning tools there is

That's fucking racist but don't waste your time trying to get people who won't see it to see it. They don't want to see it because they don't want to have to take a look at themselves.
To some people if it's not a cross burning on your lawn it's not racism.

Your husband is the one you need to be having a long and blunt as fuck talk with.

Right this is the typical stuff you see written by frothy daily fail readers when anyone brown or black is featured in an article for any reason be it positive or not 😂

Why leap straight to “why are you in Europe?” on a first meeting? Very suss!

And are you in the UK @ILikeEggsAnd or are you just not mentioning what country he said. Just finding it interesting if he actually said Europe and didn’t name the country you’re in ? Because again that’s the extremist rhetoric exhibited on tabloid comment sections and X, they go on about “European” invasion etc

And it sounds as if the BIL feels they know the answer to their question anyway because they said “you come from a poor country and you moved to Europe” they obviously think her country being poor is the reason. But that’s not something you ask people about.

But it’s shocking your husband didn’t speak up! Sorry but i’d be gutted if anyone displayed ignorance or prejudice towards me and my partner remained silent.

It does indeed sound like an unpleasant interrogation from the BIL.
I don't know what he's like generally, sadly some people are indeed racist while others are blunt and thoughtless.
Only you know whether it was deliberate offense or ignorance but as PPs have said your DH should have called him out at the time. As for your SIL, she may not think the same as her husband, Again, it's your call.
I'm sorry you were subjected to this.

Spot on. Especially the last sentence.

I actually find it sad when women hold other women to a higher standard, than their own
male partners.

No, I wouldn´t ever in a thousand years have asked you that or subjected you to a monologue of stupid questions. I frankly wouldn´t bother with them, be polite and civil when you meet and nothing more. And your husband is a wet lettuce. But you already know that.

I wouldn't recommend him wearing it in the UK either tbh 😉

Could we just take OP's word for it, because she was there, that what she said happened happened and she's cut off the family members for a good reason?

There is no need to tell her he didn't mean it, down play it, excuse it, or stick up for the bloke, because he was just being friendly and some of your friends are from xyz and they're actually really nice people?

Could we say that she's not making it up, overreacting or being a bit sensitive and go from there?

Let's do that.