Single sex schools - PT2

[WalrusOfLove]

I found it an interesting discussion so thought it would be worth having a new thread as the old is now full.

Just before the thread reached its post limit I posted a large government funded study which found that girls in single-sex schools are 'significantly more likely' to suffer threats of violence and actual violence than girls at mixed schools.

Unfortunately, it was too late in the thread to receive any replies but I thought it was an interesting statistic as many posters were suggesting that the benefit of single sex schools was a safer environment away from the boisterous/aggressive nature of boys.

Here's the study...

The National Centre for Social Research surveyed 15,500 children for its study, which was commissioned under the previous government.

It found that more pupils taught in a single-sex environment reported abuse from other pupils compared with those who attend co-educational schools.

The report says the findings 'might suggest that there are different kinds of pupil dynamics in single-sex schools that lend themselves to a greater risk of bullying overall'.

By the age of 16, girls in single-sex schools are 'significantly more likely' to suffer threats of violence and actual violence than girls at mixed schools.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1291652/Pupils-girls-schools-likely-violently-bullied.html

That news report is 14 years old, so the study is probably older.
I'd like to know if things have changed with the increased use of phones/social media
TBH violence in girls schools is not something I recognise - both me and my DD went to ss schools.
To be free of the constant low level harassment of boys 'banter' was something she really appreciated.

I haven't seen the previous thread so don't know if this recent report was mentioned
www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/may/12/girls-do-better-in-exams-at-all-girls-schools-than-mixed-research-finds

Previous thread. Got a bit tetchy ;)

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5073759-to-be-angry-so-many-girls-schools-are-going-co-ed

@WalrusOfLove ,

I tried to find the actual study but even The Mail suggested one reason was that the basis was ‘self reporting’ and that girls might be more likely to report it.

Girls in single sex schools tend to get 10% better results than those at co-eds. I think that was the figure, although some posters suggested that it was more down to the selective entry requirements of these types of institutions rather than the single sex aspect.

The question for me is what level of bullying is 'worth it' to achieve 10% better grades and will this outweigh the potential long term trauma of bullying?

Sorry, but that isn't on.
Let's behave like adults.
Any 'Ken' reports or false accusations will be reported

I went to a mixed comprehensive and all the bullying I experienced came from other girls. That included some low level violent incidents.

Of course it could be that male bullies were busy picking on other boys - not saying they were perfect.

I don't recall any sexual harassment or comments from boys that bothered me either - it was before the internet and mobile phones though so doubtless things have changed hugely.

I think teenage girls are generally nastier than teenage boys so the article doesn't surprise me.

Phones/social media will undoubtedly have allowed bullying to become more 24/7 (and harder to escape) - that will be particularly evident with psychological over physical bullying, being as physical bullying does need access to the person whereas psychological doesn't. One of the big issues with bullying, in SS or CoEd is lack of reporting - from both victims and schools, and so in some ways we will only ever see the tip of the iceberg, sadly. I didn't bother reporting when I was bullied. I know other people who also didn't bother. It's perhaps encouraged more nowadays but I am not sure how many people actually do feel they can report it.
Can we all agree not to bully on this thread though, please?

A tenth of a GCSE grade is small - it's the equivalent of one whole grade increase if you were to take 10 GCSEs. Certainly not life changing for most people, unless it was the difference between the 5 Cs or getting a C in maths and English or whatever the current numerical equivalent is.

Neither study is looking at what matters though - self esteem, confidence, feeling you are doing your best and whether your teachers help you to do that is what they should be looking at.

Obviously GCSE grades matter to an extent, but for most people they are just a stepping stone to the next level, most of the subjects won't be followed further, and by the time someone is 21 no one cares what their GCSE grades were. Whereas confidence and work ethic last for a lot longer

I think the fact this is what girls REPORTED is important. Perhaps girls at mixed schools are afraid to step forward, think it will exacerbate threats, and/or don’t see positive signs that girls who make reports are protected/believed/listened to.

And mathematically of course: if reports are primarily about girl-on-girl violence then statistically there is more chance of a girl experiencing that type of bullying in a school which is 100% female than in a school where 60% of the pupils are male (as was the case at my school).

My dd attends an outstanding comprehensive girls school. I’ve not heard of any violence and bullying is genuinely unusual. Some girls hate it there of course (mostly due to academic pressure), many more thrive. It has one of the highest progress 8 scores in the country.

i was never a believer in single sex education before now, but I simply cannot refute the evidence in front of my own eyes. The right culture of success and support, and girls of all abilities can flourish in a SS school.

Bullying is such a hard one to conclude much from, other than we know it happens - would you agree that it's often under reported, by both victims and schools (for different reasons)? I hate to think how many pupils are suffering silently and the thought that some actually take their own lives is horrific!

reported

That’s fine. I hope the moderators see your over-posting on these threads is wildly excessive (every minute or two for 24+ hours) and encourage you to dial it back a bit to allow others to speak.

Many of the posts were very much along the long the lines of “boys are aggressive, chair throwing, sexual predators which our daughters need protecting from”. Many of us politely pointed out that this simply isn’t the case. Are there unpleasant boys? Yes, of course there are, just like there are unpleasant girls.

The original post was about the closure of single sex schools. Many of us explained that single sex schools were closing because of a reduced demand. Many families don’t want single sex education despite the perceived benefits. It’s really not as clear cut as saying “single sex schools produce better outcomes for girls”. The stats do often show a slight academic advantage, but we have to remember that many single sex are selective which skews the figures somewhat.

There many alternative viewpoints as to why single sex isn’t always ideal, which might explain why many families don’t want to use them. I’m not saying that single sex isn’t right for some girls, but the reality is that many people don’t want them, which is why they are closing. If they were so good and could fill all their places many times over, there would be no logical reason for them to close.

https://www.theeducatoronline.com/k12/news/are-samesex-schools-harming-young-minds/255818

https://www.tes.com/magazine/archive/girls-schools-biggest-bullies-breeding-ground

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2016/apr/school-affects-girls-chances-being-diagnosed-eating-disorder

https://www.glamourmagazine.co.uk/article/single-sex-school-affected-relationships

https://www.shoutoutuk.org/2020/06/08/single-sex-schools-are-a-bad-place-to-begin-a-social-life/#:~:text=A%202019%20study%20found%20that,and%20this%20rippled%20into%20adulthood.

Can people stop laying into @KeinLiebeslied54321 ! Her user name is a song, she isn’t Ken or in any way male sounding!

I profoundly disagree with her and have explained why, but her posts have been polite, nor personal and on topic.

It is different views which make a thread interesting…

Which of those studies pertain to girls schools and which to boys rather than just single sex per se? Because we’ve acknowledged boys schools don’t add the value girls do, and the discussion is about girls.

I don’t think their posts have been abusive or rude but it’s the sheer number of them, I can be a passionate poster but this goes beyond that and the sheer volume and repetitiveness ruined the discourse

I appreciate that, thank you.
I feel like this thread (and the previous one) is actually telling about how some people might not even recognise some forms of bullying.