Single sex schools - PT2

[WalrusOfLove]

I found it an interesting discussion so thought it would be worth having a new thread as the old is now full.

Just before the thread reached its post limit I posted a large government funded study which found that girls in single-sex schools are 'significantly more likely' to suffer threats of violence and actual violence than girls at mixed schools.

Unfortunately, it was too late in the thread to receive any replies but I thought it was an interesting statistic as many posters were suggesting that the benefit of single sex schools was a safer environment away from the boisterous/aggressive nature of boys.

A quick google brings up quite a few cases where girls have been the perpetrators in cases involving serious violence.

I think as a country we need to be asking serious questions about why there is an increasing trend in schools for serious violence. I’m not sure it’s helpful to continually say “boys are violent” and just to remove girls from their company and think the problem is solved. Violent boys aren’t going to turn into lovely gentle men overnight. We need to deal with the problems rather than just saying “it’s ok, I’ll just remove my child from the problem”.

As a family, we use private education and are extremely lucky that we can access schools without serious behaviour problems. Protecting my children from awful behaviour in less desirable schools doesn’t mean the problem is solved though. We need to address children’s behaviour so that they become decent adults, for everyone’s sake.

I'm sure there is. I thought we were talking about whether girls are better off at SS or co-ed schools, though? That's why violence was brought up because studies show girls are significantly more likely to experience it at SS schools.

But surely sending them to an environment where they're significantly more likely to experience violence isn't the solution?

Tell me about the last time a female pupil carried out a knife attack at school?

I‘m assuming you missed the headline news a couple of weeks ago?

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/24/three-people-injured-at-welsh-school-and-one-arrested

In April 2024.

I'm not sure how that's relevant to the topic tbh. Even if boys commit more knife crime the data still shows that girls are significantly more likely to experience violence in single sex schools. And it's not the girls getting stabbed either generally.

You said it best yourself....

But this thread isn’t about what’s best for boys, or where their behaviour comes from, or how to solve it.

It’s about what’s best for girls.

the data still shows that girls are significantly more likely to experience violence in single sex schools

Is the data you're referring to the one in your OP?

Because I won't be relying on a few out of context quotes (in the DM) from a study I've not seen.

Even the quotes in the article don't fully make sense. It reads like click bait.

Well, of course you've 'not seen' it if you don't read it. It was nothing to do with the Daily Mail. It was a large government funded study.

I'm genuinely perplexed. I've just reread it and it sounds nothing like clickbait to me. Could it just be that you don't like what it's saying?

Did I miss the link to the study? Sorry, if so, I thought I'd checked.

Have you read it?

Or are you just quoting out of context fragments from the daily mail.

Yes, I'm definitely sceptical because it doesn't match my experience.

Which was why I wanted to see the study.

As the whole thread seems to be hanging on it, it would be a good place to start.

https://www.tes.com/magazine/archive/girls-schools-biggest-bullies-breeding-ground#:~:text=Pupils%20at%20all%2Dgirls'%20schools,at%20their%20co%2Deducational%20counterparts.&text=Physical%20bullying%20is%20worst%20in,older%2C%20according%20to%20the%20study.

Here’s a link to the TES, which refers to a study (admittedly a few years old).

It’s quite difficult to find many recent studies, but here’s a recent one from Ireland which states “there is no difference in reading, mathematics or science performance between those attending single-sex or mixed-sex schools”.

https://bera-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/berj.3841

I think the point is that there is no widespread agreement on whether single sex schools are better for girls, and which is why many families actively avoid them.

On no planet would I send my daughters to a mixed secondary school. Mixed primary is great. They don’t need to put up with this shit at their teen plus age. Plenty of time in life to interact with males more. In future they’ll be older, their brains developed and they will be better equipped to deal with any issues. They don’t need to do that now. They’re having a great time. Unlike cousins who are putting up with sexualisation and harassment every week.

I was at a mixed comprehensive. The education was crap, the school was crap, the boys, for the most part were ok. But there was a significant minority who were not. I don’t need my daughters to put up with that shit when they don’t have to.

https://www.thenewfeminist.co.uk/2021/07/we-need-to-talk-about-schools-dismissal-of-sexual-harassment-against-young-women/?amp=1

In June 2021, ITV’s coverage showed that sexual harassment had become normalised to the point where students did not see the point in reporting it. Even more worryingly, 150 victims of upskirting were children.

Victims are so used to enduring it, meanwhile teachers often underestimate the situation and therefore fail to report it. Not to our surprise, the default solution amongst schools seems to be to place the blame on the girls’ choice of clothing.

These responses have not been well received; Norwich Academy, as just one example, was recently criticised for its misogynistic advice to female students not to wear short skirts or coloured bras to avoid unwanted attention. It is a tale as old as time.

This is a discussion about the same study the OP refers to.

But we still don't have a link to it. Or even the year the study was carried out.

It was linked at the very start of the thread.

60% schools in Ireland are single sex.

The Daily Mail news article was linked but not the actual research on which they said it was based. I couldn’t find the research on the web.

I can see a link to a Daily mail article which quotes several isolated pieces of information from a study.

I don't see a link to the study. It doesn't even say what year the study was done in.

I mentioned another study that found that female perpetrated violence had doubled within a decade but just realised I never posted the link. It actually tripled, not doubled.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7930231/amp/Domestic-abuse-women-triples-decade-female-attackers-carrying-assaults.html

I've often felt based on what I've seen and heard, so just my personal view - is that whichever study said that SS schools can help boys and can hinder girls is broadly true.

My dd and her fellow students in a ss setting never have to get out of the way of anyone. They can take 1st, 2nd and 3rd prize. They don't need to please. They exist in a meritocracy that the staff clearly rate as they all send their dds to the school.

But ds I believe would have benefitted from a mixed sex education. SS for boys is great if it suits the boy but it can be too rugged for some.

Sorry! I meant the study thar said MIXED schools help boys but can hinder girls!

My experience of an all girls school was positive. It was quite a sheltered environment where I think we stayed younger for longer, people were much more inclined to be playfully silly as teenagers in ways that they'd probably have worried about if there were boys around to impress.

I knew very few people at school who didn't have plenty of friends who were boys outside school, via siblings, hobbies, local friends from primary school. I went straight to an almost entirely male course at uni and have worked in male dominated workplaces with no issues.

They can take 1st, 2nd and 3rd prize.

There’s nothing stopping girls from achieving this in a co-Ed setting though. My daughter came 1st in a recent STEM assessment competition. That’s a true meritocracy; being able to take 1st place because of ability, measured across both sexes. It never crossed her mind that she would be at a disadvantage as a female, because everyone is treated as equals.

Girl arrested on suspicion of attempted murder after teachers and pupil stabbed at school - BBC News

This recent one was perpetrated by a girl. So not all by boys, but I agree that most are.