Single sex schools - PT2

[WalrusOfLove]

I found it an interesting discussion so thought it would be worth having a new thread as the old is now full.

Just before the thread reached its post limit I posted a large government funded study which found that girls in single-sex schools are 'significantly more likely' to suffer threats of violence and actual violence than girls at mixed schools.

Unfortunately, it was too late in the thread to receive any replies but I thought it was an interesting statistic as many posters were suggesting that the benefit of single sex schools was a safer environment away from the boisterous/aggressive nature of boys.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/248963649_Boys_masculinity_and_school_violence_Reaping_what_we_sow

no surprises

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12436571/amp/German-school-horror-pupil-16-stabs-seriously-wounds-eight-year-old-schoolboy-sets-fire.html

🤷‍♀️

Are there many non fee paying single sex schools in the UK?

The reason I ask is because the majority of state schools in Ireland are single sex schools. In fact it can be hard in some areas to find a state co-ed. A recent study in Ireland shows that the majority of secondary school students prefer co-ed.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/most-secondary-school-students-prefer-mixed-sex-education-says-esri-report/a1487675325.html

Another recent study in Ireland showed that there was no academic advantage between single sex and co-ed schools

https://www.ul.ie/research/news/university-of-limerick-research-reveals-no-academic-advantage-to-attending-single-sex

I know these reports are from Ireland but our single sex schools are normal state schools, they are not exclusive Grammer or fee paying schools so possibly a better comparison can be made between them and a state co-ed. I get the impression single sex schools in the UK tend to be more exclusive, private or Grammer?

I don't really understand what you are trying to say here?
Girls shouldn’t be put through a social experiment at the cost of their education to find out why
What is the social experiment? Mixing girls and boys? That's society, I guess society can be described as one big social experiment but it's not one we have any control over.

If boys and their parents want to go away and solve this issue we can talk again.
Pretty simplistic response. It isn't just boys and their parents issue to solve. Society is complex there are many factors which contribute to a person's behaviour, gender is just one of those.

But in the meantime let’s not make our girls pay the price of boys ‘exploring themselves’.
Let's let "our girls" have a choice in this. From the study I listed above the majority in Ireland anyway want co-ed. Things aren't as black and white as you make out.

Btw I am a mum of 3 teenage girls all in co-ed and thriving it was their choice. I went to all girls primary and secondary and was very glad they opted for co-ed

This is horrific.
The fact that he also set himself on fire would suggests there's more than one issue going on here.

@Dulra there are single sex state schools in England but there are no single sex state schools in Scotland though. There are some single sex private schools in Scotland. Not sure about Wales.

I can't read more than a summary but the 'reaping what we sow' suggests we do need to be more proactive in how we address male behaviour and the causes of threatening/violent behaviour, as opposed to just segregation of girls. Societal change is needed.

Another*76543
*
In an ideal world that should be the case but we do know there is deeply rooted sexism in our society and it seems improbable to me that it would suddenly have no impact in a school setting? Unless it's in some imaginary ideal realm.

I've seen my daughter's confidence grow now there is no swaggering boy entitlement. There was some of that at her primary school.

DS also suffered from the swaggering boy entitlement in his ss school which is why I think he might have benefitted from a mixed school. There's nothing quite as dominant as a boy who thinks he's born to be first in line. You meet their mums & dads and you see where it comes from.

DS also suffered from the swaggering boy entitlement in his ss school which is why I think he might have benefitted from a mixed school. There's nothing quite as dominant as a boy who thinks he's born to be first in line. You meet their mums & dads and you see where it comes from.

I think you can reverse that and replace swaggering boy with swaggering girl. I came across many of those in my all girls secondary and god help you if they took issue with you for some random reason like the wrong hair clip.

I'm not sure if comments about SS boys schools are of interest, but my son attends a state boys grammar and it is fabulous. I had my reservations but he is able to completely be himself. The fastest growing club last year was knit and crochet, take up of Food tech is really high - both activities that boys may feel are 'not for them' in co-ed. They have some joint activities with the girls grammar and co-ed 6th form. They do a lot of sport and have fabulous male role models amongst the teaching staff, as well as lots of fabulous female teachers who seem to love their jobs. Expectations for behaviour and independence are really high.

Progress 8 slightly higher for the boys' than the girls' school last year. PSHE and mental health support is outstanding.

I know this is pure anecdote but just wanted to say that SS can be positive for boys.

Dulra

I'm sure that's the case. Dd has some right bitchez at school for sure.

But I think the idea of an all female space academically makes complete intuitive sense to me and anecdotal sense as well.

Different kids thrive in different settings. It's not one size fits all. Getting your child into the best setting for them is a challenge based on luck, judgment and resources.

DD's school's leadership believes that ss school up to GCSE has particular benefits for pupils and they seem to be correct in terms of academic achievement.

Some kids will be nasty in any setting - but this is about what difference it might I think.

@Bobblesock if your DS hasn't already looked at Tom Daley's creations then encourage him to do so! He has spoken of how knitting has helped him quite a bit in life too.

Boys watching porn think ‘choking’ is a thing in sex. It’s not a thing. But porn tells them it is. Then they’re going to school with girls.

Obv these are older people. But it’s not unusual these days, it seems. This and more.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cydrdm94ylvo

That's why the embarrassing but essential 'you know that porn isn't real' phrase has to be spoken out loud - I get that it's not something we can always just drop into conversation but it's why we need to keep talking to our children about things like this. Nobody has a 100% guarantee of anything, of course, but openly talking is a start. I think some parents assume 'my child doesn't' - we should think 'my child (potentially) does' and so we need to have (a) conversation(s). If we're not sure where to begin then topics such as respect and consent are broad starters/openers, for both sexes.

Agreed.

Interesting article from Australia this week. Same issues. All girls schools are full to bursting there, highly subscribed. Successful.

Then some Incidents that have happened in Australia with boys at all boys’ schools. So many don’t want to go coed.

‘Then in 2020, there was the vile Shore School muck-up day list, in which Year 12 boys encouraged one another to: Parade naked outside various girls’ schools; imbibe a variety of drugs; assault strangers; defecate on public toilet seats; “get with” a minor; “perform a sex scene on the stairs of a church”; “play porn out loud on public transport”; “eat a live small animal” … and so on. The list was racist, sexist and betrayed a culture that fundamentally lacked compassion and respect.’

There’s this article also

https://educationhq.com/news/girls-should-not-be-collateral-damage-in-the-push-for-co-ed-schooling-125714/

Single sex education is becoming less popular in Australia too, with some turning co-Ed.

In the interests of balancing your story, here’s one from a girls’ school.

https://7news.com.au/news/nsw/sex-strippers-streaking-elite-sydney-girls-school-horrified-by-leaked-muck-up-day-plans-c-1342827.amp

The stories are hardly a ringing endorsement in favour of single sex education.

@Another76543

‘Single sex education is becoming less popular in Australia too, with some turning co-Ed’

Yes that was the point of the first article I read - but it was saying that girls are bearing the brunt as a lot don’t want to go Co Ed. It only benefits the males. Shocker.

I couldn’t post two articles though.