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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that people living longer is making quality of life for everyone worse?

640 replies

Futurascope · 14/05/2024 22:04

Possibly controversial…,

https://www.itv.com/news/2024-05-14/one-in-three-councils-not-confident-they-can-provide-basic-adult-social-care

“The fears about meeting the legal requirements come despite eight out of 10 councils forecasting having to cut spending on other community services such as parks, libraries and leisure centres to try to protect funding”.

So - libraries, leisure centres, parks, all vital for young children, families and others - being closed because the elderly desperately need social care.

As awful as it is for us all individually to lose somebody that we love….. is curing every disease, and having us all live to 100 really a good thing if it is at the expense of quality of life for the rest of society?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
vivainsomnia · 15/05/2024 15:26

You’re not disputing the impact of an aging population though are you?
Of course I'm not.

My point is saying that an older person shouldn't get a joint replacement because of their age would be no different to saying that one shouldn't be entitled purely due to letting themselves become obese.

So are those saying the former also agreeing with the latter?

SergeantDawkins · 15/05/2024 15:28

There’s plenty of money, they just don’t want to spend it on the needy, young or old. It’s being hoarded instead.

Macaroni46 · 15/05/2024 15:48

@K0OLA1D waiting to go on the waiting list. Appointment with consultant has been moved back 5 times from early Feb to end of August. That's just to get on the waiting list which is god knows how long. Hence me going private.

K0OLA1D · 15/05/2024 15:50

Macaroni46 · 15/05/2024 15:48

@K0OLA1D waiting to go on the waiting list. Appointment with consultant has been moved back 5 times from early Feb to end of August. That's just to get on the waiting list which is god knows how long. Hence me going private.

Ridiculous. When I enquired about going private for a hip (I was going to get a loan), they said they could get me in in 2 weeks.

LakeTiticaca · 15/05/2024 15:55

Nobody is suggesting knocking old folk off when they get to a certain age. The problem is that nobody is allowed to pass away naturally anymore. Gone are the days when great granny takes to her bed. Family doctor comes and tells family to make her comfortable, she's on the way out.
Nowadays it's 999 for the ambulance, takne to hospital, shoved on a drip, pumped with antibiotics sent home, rinse and repeat until poor old great granny finally runs out of steam.I used to see it regularly as a home carer, tiny, frail little old ladies and men, many with dementia. It's tragic. My mother was wise enough to give me and my siblings POA and put a DNAR in place while she still had capacity. She ended up wracked with dementia in a care home but was allowed to pass very peacefully without being prodded and poked and filled with antibiotics

K0OLA1D · 15/05/2024 15:56

LakeTiticaca · 15/05/2024 15:55

Nobody is suggesting knocking old folk off when they get to a certain age. The problem is that nobody is allowed to pass away naturally anymore. Gone are the days when great granny takes to her bed. Family doctor comes and tells family to make her comfortable, she's on the way out.
Nowadays it's 999 for the ambulance, takne to hospital, shoved on a drip, pumped with antibiotics sent home, rinse and repeat until poor old great granny finally runs out of steam.I used to see it regularly as a home carer, tiny, frail little old ladies and men, many with dementia. It's tragic. My mother was wise enough to give me and my siblings POA and put a DNAR in place while she still had capacity. She ended up wracked with dementia in a care home but was allowed to pass very peacefully without being prodded and poked and filled with antibiotics

Have you read the thread???

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 15/05/2024 16:01

From all I’ve ever read or heard, it’s often the relatives who insist on life being prolonged when quality of life is very poor, while medics very often feel that letting Nature take its course, with palliative care, would be kinder. But their hands are more or less tied, for fear of DM headlines - ’Callous doctors wanted Mum to die!’

One case I heard of concerned an over 90 with already fairly advanced dementia and heart problems. The family opted for a pacemaker, even though they were told that without it the person would most likely drift away quite peacefully in their sleep.

I was given the option of hospital and drips etc. for an aunt of mid 80s, dementia, with the umpteenth UTI, who was refusing food and drink - or keeping her comfortable in her very good care home.
I could only ask the lovely GP what he’d do if it was his much-loved aunt.
He said he’d leave her where she was - it was only going to happen again, probably quite soon. And as I was already aware, hospital is a terrible place for anyone with dementia, when they can’t understand what is going on, or why.

So she was kept comfortable, still refusing food and drink, and drifted away quite peacefully after about a week.

Of course everyone has the option of adding their wishes to a Health and Welfare P of A - in certain X or Y circumstances (if you are no longer able to speak with full mental capacity for yourself) - no life prolonging or life-saving treatments, thank you.

Boomer55 · 15/05/2024 16:02

Well, if it helps, I’m a pensioner. I don’t need new knees or hips, and if I did I’d pay.

I have DNR on my records, as I don’t want to drag on endlessly.

But, it shouldn’t be about money - obese people are costing the NHS etc as much as older people.🤷‍♀️

lazyarse123 · 15/05/2024 16:19
  1. The boomer generation are taking more than they contributed. Many of them have retired relatively young (the lucky ones on final salary pensions), will live to be relatively old, have enjoyed significant public services most of their lives, and have/will make a killing when they sell their homes.
  2. We
And there it is in black and white. Why not just come out and say all folk who have worked and probably organised their finances for 50 plus years can just now fuck off and die because they've had more than their fair share.

You do know when you're spouting about making a killing on our houses that wages were nothing like they are now when we bought.

Christ people like you make me sick.

TorturedPoetsDepartmentAnthology · 15/05/2024 16:20

MrTiddlesTheCat · 15/05/2024 14:58

The OP isn't asking about how we are going to afford it though. She's saying we shouldn't be providing it at the expense of kids having fun.

and worries about her child affording a house. It’s completely separate to funding social care.

Obviously we prioritise our own over strangers but cutting social care funding won’t help her child to buy a property. There are many things people can do to help but no, she expects society to do it! 🙄🙄

TorturedPoetsDepartmentAnthology · 15/05/2024 16:21

Boomer55 · 15/05/2024 16:02

Well, if it helps, I’m a pensioner. I don’t need new knees or hips, and if I did I’d pay.

I have DNR on my records, as I don’t want to drag on endlessly.

But, it shouldn’t be about money - obese people are costing the NHS etc as much as older people.🤷‍♀️

Yes but nobody on MN is obese. They’re all very slim and earn 6 figure salaries so can afford private joint replacements anyway. 😏

upthehills1 · 15/05/2024 16:24

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 14/05/2024 22:15

What if you have relatives that love you and value you and beg you not to?

Relatives that value her but don’t value her right to choose a dignified departure?

upthehills1 · 15/05/2024 16:30

As a nurse I have cared for elderly with peg feeding who have been bed bound with no means of communication who have lived that way for a decade. It’s very undignified.

However that’s not the case for everyone. Many 80+ year olds are still enjoying life. My own mother is still working at 70.

WearyAuldWumman · 15/05/2024 16:39

lazyarse123 · 15/05/2024 16:19

  1. The boomer generation are taking more than they contributed. Many of them have retired relatively young (the lucky ones on final salary pensions), will live to be relatively old, have enjoyed significant public services most of their lives, and have/will make a killing when they sell their homes.
  2. We
And there it is in black and white. Why not just come out and say all folk who have worked and probably organised their finances for 50 plus years can just now fuck off and die because they've had more than their fair share.

You do know when you're spouting about making a killing on our houses that wages were nothing like they are now when we bought.

Christ people like you make me sick.

I'm a tail-end Boomer.

i'm sick and tired of the assumption that we all had it easy. The people I see complaining about Boomers are often relatively privileged middle class people who had a comfortable upbringing and whose parents benefited from the rise in housing prices in the south.

Many of the rest of us had rather a different experience. My dad survived the war, became a coalminer and saved up until he could buy a small ground-floor flat. (One bedroom. Inside loo, but no actual bathroom.)

We lost it in 1972 to a compulsory purchase order, so that the council could build a car park. Dad was given £400 in compensation - the equivalent of just over 5k. He had no hope of buying a new property by then and we finished up in council housing.

My mother left school at 14 and was in service for the next 13 years. Thereafter, she worked in factories. She spent a great deal of her time caring for elderly relatives, not only her parents. We didn't have the same access to social services then.

My parents encouraged me to work hard at school. The one area where I do see myself as privileged compared with younger folk is that I had free tuition and a means-tested grant.

I managed to buy my own 2 bed house. Paying the mortgage took about everything I had. I still have the same carpets that were here when I moved in in '86. I've just had to replace/improve a little at a time. Most of my furniture is second-hand.

I'm seeng younger people expecting to move into property that's in "move-in" condition, rather than being prepared to do things a bit at a time. It's just a different outlook, I guess.

Each generation has its own challenges. I've no doubt that when the Millenials are elderly younger folk will be complaining about them and suggesting that they've had it too easy.

K0OLA1D · 15/05/2024 16:41

upthehills1 · 15/05/2024 16:24

Relatives that value her but don’t value her right to choose a dignified departure?

What, because she doesn't want them to get her shopping for her or do a bit of hoovering?

WearyAuldWumman · 15/05/2024 16:44

Re: making a killing on housing.

I bought my place for 24k in '86. Paying off the mortgage was hard, as I think I've indicated. After paying off the mortgage over 27/28 yrs, I was able to have a small extension added to accommodate my mother. It took all my savings.

Judging by current prices round her, the house might sell for 130k if I'm lucky. (2 bed houses, the identical design to mine are going for between 60 and 115k, depending on condition.) That will go in care home costs if I'm still here.

Itsrainingten · 15/05/2024 16:56

"NineChickennuggets · Today 15:01
Perhaps we should stop the use of vaccinations. That should cut the number of people down quite easily."
Well it's interesting that you say that!
We don't vaccinate kids against chicken pox in this country because it's deemed worthwhile them catching it and getting sick (potentially very sick if they're unlucky - a kid in my DCS class was hospitalised with sepsis from chicken pox last year - it was touch and go) to ensure that elderly people get "boosted" by varicella by being around them, to help ensure protection for THEM against shingles.
When there is even a vaccine for shingles anyway! So kids get chickenpox now, and because of that will likely get shingles when they're old themselves, to help stop current elderly getting sick now (when they could just have a vax)
I hope you're all calling out the ageism there as well. Ageism works in both directions...

Uniqueusername2 · 15/05/2024 16:59

VestibuleVirgin · 15/05/2024 05:23

Do you want to apply that logic to everyone or just the elderly?

Edited

Just the elderly. If you get to 90+ you’ve had a great life. I’m not talking about bumping off disabled people if that’s what you’re implying

VestibuleVirgin · 15/05/2024 17:07

Uniqueusername2 · 15/05/2024 16:59

Just the elderly. If you get to 90+ you’ve had a great life. I’m not talking about bumping off disabled people if that’s what you’re implying

So, selective euthanasia?

lazyarse123 · 15/05/2024 17:09

WearyAuldWumman · 15/05/2024 16:44

Re: making a killing on housing.

I bought my place for 24k in '86. Paying off the mortgage was hard, as I think I've indicated. After paying off the mortgage over 27/28 yrs, I was able to have a small extension added to accommodate my mother. It took all my savings.

Judging by current prices round her, the house might sell for 130k if I'm lucky. (2 bed houses, the identical design to mine are going for between 60 and 115k, depending on condition.) That will go in care home costs if I'm still here.

Exactly this. We have been paying our mortgage for 26 years and have still got 5 years left. Due to DH not being able to work for the last 15 years because of his health we missed payments and had to extend, we were very lucky not to lose it.
We paid 40,000. and apparently it's worth about 200,000 now but even to downsize and the fees would swallow it all up. So I guess I'll carry on working and not go on any cruises yet.

IsEveryUserNameBloodyTaken · 15/05/2024 17:47

Friend2023 · 14/05/2024 22:38

You only have to see posts on here about inheritance and older people wanting to hand their homes down to their children to see where there's a problem in society.

Why should the rest of society pay for social care for people who have managed to avoid having to sell their homes to pay for their care .

Some won't agree but if you've got the funds , morally you should want to pay for your own care, not want the state to fund it coz you sold your house 7 years ago to avoid this and to leave inheritance to your kids. OK its nice to want to look after your kids after you've gone but make sure the state isn't picking up your care bill to enable that.

But then again there are people who are not paying as they don’t own their house so there is no equality there.

upthehills1 · 15/05/2024 17:48

K0OLA1D · 15/05/2024 16:41

What, because she doesn't want them to get her shopping for her or do a bit of hoovering?

They should respect her right to choose. Relatives have a tendency to suddenly assume they know what’s best for someone as they get older. Losing your independence is no joke.

It’s not about getting someone else to do the shopping. If you physicality can’t manage your activities of daily living, it’s likely you are in some pain, the things you enjoy.

Your comment suggests you care more about the thoughts of the relatives than the person themselves. Unfortunately this is all too common

Macaroni46 · 15/05/2024 17:58

@K0OLA1D

"Ridiculous. When I enquired about going private for a hip (I was going to get a loan), they said they could get me in in 2 weeks."

Same here. By going private I've been able to choose when I'm having the op which enables me to plan the least loss of earnings and have family around to help during my initial recovery.

TorturedPoetsDepartmentAnthology · 15/05/2024 17:59

Uniqueusername2 · 15/05/2024 16:59

Just the elderly. If you get to 90+ you’ve had a great life. I’m not talking about bumping off disabled people if that’s what you’re implying

It should be on a case by case basis. Joan aged 89 who has mild memory issues, is legally blind due to age related macular degeneration, osteoarthritis in so many joints that she cannot walk more than 5 steps, insulin dependent diabetes and has carers 4 times a day and spends the rest of her life sitting in a chair and cries a lot when asked if she’s happy probably wouldn’t benefit from a hip replacement anyway. Mary who is 85 and otherwise has no health issues and can walk and look after herself might well do!

TorturedPoetsDepartmentAnthology · 15/05/2024 18:01

upthehills1 · 15/05/2024 17:48

They should respect her right to choose. Relatives have a tendency to suddenly assume they know what’s best for someone as they get older. Losing your independence is no joke.

It’s not about getting someone else to do the shopping. If you physicality can’t manage your activities of daily living, it’s likely you are in some pain, the things you enjoy.

Your comment suggests you care more about the thoughts of the relatives than the person themselves. Unfortunately this is all too common

Edited

Unfortunately, a number of families will guilt the older person and see the cash as a bonus. It’s cheaper and easier if granny pops her clogs before she starts to really need more help plus you get her house. 💁🏻‍♀️