To think that people living longer is making quality of life for everyone worse?

[Futurascope]

Possibly controversial…,

https://www.itv.com/news/2024-05-14/one-in-three-councils-not-confident-they-can-provide-basic-adult-social-care

“The fears about meeting the legal requirements come despite eight out of 10 councils forecasting having to cut spending on other community services such as parks, libraries and leisure centres to try to protect funding”.

So - libraries, leisure centres, parks, all vital for young children, families and others - being closed because the elderly desperately need social care.

As awful as it is for us all individually to lose somebody that we love….. is curing every disease, and having us all live to 100 really a good thing if it is at the expense of quality of life for the rest of society?

The moment I have to rely on anyone else is the moment I’ll be hopping on the first plane to Dignitas.

This is said so much on here, I wonder when the time actually comes though how many really would hop on the first plane, it’s easy to say this when it’s not your current reality.

It is not just some elderly people having their lives artificially prolonged though, is it? So why center on them as a problem?

Agree...it's very easy to say oh I don't want to live once I get to a certain stage...I'll take myself off to dignitas. I think the reality is a lot more difficult. Humans survival instinct is strong.

And by the time they find themselves in that state, they will be reliant on other people to get them there, no doubt.

A lot of the adult social care expense on our council tax actually goes towards schools ECHP students.

Recent figures are showing a stagnation and possibly decline in life expectancy.

An increase in tax for all and a general shake up of the system would help towards our services and education

Saying people are living too long it’s all their fault my life’s crap is disgusting

Don’t get me started on people not being able to retire until 67 - easy for an MP in an office to decide. What about everybody working in physical jobs? This is exactly the type of problem I’m talking about - living longer is increasing all sorts of other issues 😢

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel Oh apologies, I misunderstood. I think I would do it anyway - I couldn’t bear to be reliant on anyone else.

The problem is systemic underfunding of care and underfunding of health (causing more problems in later life), not ”all the unreasonable old people staying alive for too long”.

Also that there was no shift in care funding. It used to be the case that middle aged women stayed home and took on the care burden for free. I don’t expect most people want to go back to that but, in increasing economic activity for that age group, and therefore the tax take, there has not been a corresponding increase in the care budget.

AKA women’s contributions are always undervalued.

The councils only pay for social care if the person has less than 23 thousand in assets, I believe?

So actually rich elderly people aren't paid for by the council?

So it's not so much people living longer and in poorer health but the family caring system falling apart due to women working and so those who can't pay for care the council has to.

You do realise it’s not just old people that need social care support?

What about young adults with Down’s syndrome, Autism or cerebral palsy that need supported living. Are you suggesting we get rid of those people as well? Too much of a drain on ‘your’ society?

Yeah, you might change that view when you get there

I am 33. I rely on my family daily. Should I be written off? My 87 yo nan manages on her own. Even walks to get her own shopping

I agree with previous posters that more money for social care might help. By I agree with the OP and I don’t think money cures the entire issue.

It isn’t exactly a problem a such, more a side effect of improvements in life expectancy and in curing/improving some types of illness.

From my experience in the last decade of life, assuming that is sometime from age 75 onwards, people need not only significant care that can be paid for/bought, but also significant help that can’t be bought. Companionship, sympathy with ailments, help with banking/downsizing etc, immobility leading to family needing to visit rather than the relative travelling etc etc.

And that is even if they stay reasonably healthy in mind and body. If they don’t there are hospital trips, discharge coordination, late night phone calls etc etc.

Pointing it out isn’t asking for a problem to be ‘solved’. It is akin to saying ‘isn’t life with toddlers hard work’.

Are you volunteering to die @Futurascope to give the rest of us a better chance?

You didn’t answer my question though. At what age do you propose be the cut off for medical treatment?

The premise of this thread is dubious at best.

Whereas some people enjoy it?? Have you any idea how offensive your posts are to people with disabilities?

I think the problem in the UK is threefold:

1. we don’t tax wealth and passive income appropriately.
2. The boomer generation are taking more than they contributed. Many of them have retired relatively young (the lucky ones on final salary pensions), will live to be relatively old, have enjoyed significant public services most of their lives, and have/will make a killing when they sell their homes.
3. We keep elderly and sick Alice artificially far longer than it’s kind to do so. If you’re smart write an advance directive and make sure this doesn’t happen to you.

Interesting and worrying figures

I would never want or suggest pulling funding from elderly people that need it. The thought of anybody suffering is awful.

I think a couple of people have possibly misinterpreted my thinking behind this thread. I am in no way disability bashing, or suggesting we should cut funding.

My post comes purely from a theoretical viewpoint of whether the advances in medicine and healthcare have contributed to significant drop in quality of living and public services. And what this will look like if medicine continues to advance, which it surely will?

I did warn it may be controversial!

Sixth richest country cannot afford to look after its elderly and disabled… yeah right, only solution is let them die earlier. Not the ££££ taken out of the public sector by the super wealthy who more often than not make their money here but don’t pay tax in the UK

You only have to see posts on here about inheritance and older people wanting to hand their homes down to their children to see where there's a problem in society.

Why should the rest of society pay for social care for people who have managed to avoid having to sell their homes to pay for their care .

Some won't agree but if you've got the funds , morally you should want to pay for your own care, not want the state to fund it coz you sold your house 7 years ago to avoid this and to leave inheritance to your kids. OK its nice to want to look after your kids after you've gone but make sure the state isn't picking up your care bill to enable that.

Logan's Run?

The moment I have to rely on anyone else is the moment I’ll be hopping on the first plane to Dignitas. It is interesting how that assertion is so often rescinded when the time comes - or the goal posts shift steadily further away! There are thousands of people who have to rely on others because of a disability and who feel they have a good quality of life and who contribute to the happiness of those around them.

I was a social worker with adults for many years and remember vividly a young woman who could only communicate with moving her big toe - she was on a ventilator and relied on carers entirely. I spent some good times with her - her sense of humour was pretty racy - and she edited a magazine very successfully.

It is dangerous to start making judgements about others' quality of life. People with disabilities are understandably pretty pissed off when people do that. We all only have the one life, and we live it within the parameters we have been given.

@Pepperama Quite. Fascism, frankly.

I don’t think people are misunderstanding you. You said

So - libraries, leisure centres, parks, all vital for young children, families and others - being closed because the elderly desperately need social care.

As awful as it is for us all individually to lose somebody that we love….. is curing every disease, and having us all live to 100 really a good thing if it is at the expense of quality of life for the rest of society?

You are asking people to consider whether we should withdraw medical and social care from the elderly in order to fund libraries, leisure centres and parks.