To think that people living longer is making quality of life for everyone worse?

[Futurascope]

Possibly controversial…,

https://www.itv.com/news/2024-05-14/one-in-three-councils-not-confident-they-can-provide-basic-adult-social-care

“The fears about meeting the legal requirements come despite eight out of 10 councils forecasting having to cut spending on other community services such as parks, libraries and leisure centres to try to protect funding”.

So - libraries, leisure centres, parks, all vital for young children, families and others - being closed because the elderly desperately need social care.

As awful as it is for us all individually to lose somebody that we love….. is curing every disease, and having us all live to 100 really a good thing if it is at the expense of quality of life for the rest of society?

84 and 11 months falls over and breaks a hip - you may have surgery.
85 years and 1 month does the same - you won’t die right now but you’ll suffer terribly until you do. Probably cost more too!

Totally agree. My gran had a hip replacement at 92 and lived another mobile 5 years.

It was the NHS that was admitting them to hospital when they didn’t want to be there…

Well I for one agree with @ChristmasGutPunch

Can people not have an opinion on here without being called “fucking sick”?

If the care home say they will not take them back because of ill health, the NHS has no choice. Your relative can refuse all treatment.
There is an issue with some care homes calling ambulances rather than treating people in homes. It is simply to save money.

But you say anyone over 85 should not have treatment. How is that not sick?

I urge everyone who is blithely supporting assisted suicide/euthanasia to watch the documentary made by disabled actor Liz Carr 'Better off Dead?' which was shown on BBC1 last night.

Look out in particular for her interview with Lord Falconer, who reckons it should only be for those with terminal illnesses - and then the campaigner who is herself disabled who argues it should be widened to include people who are not suffering terminal illness. Look out also for the quite astonishing doctor in Canada who laughs and smiles all through her interview with Liz as she discusses how she loves her job - which is mostly approving and carrying out assisted suicide. Look out also for the man who was on disability benefits and made homeless, who got approved for assisted suicide because he was homeless (he was helped not to have to die by a big crowdfunding campaign).

It's all quite shocking.

Just had this happen with my MIL this weekend. She's got late stage Alzheimers. No recognition of me or my late DP for over four years. She's immobile, on a liquid diet, on meds for muscle contracture pain. I'm broadly in agreement that it's inhumane and she wanted to die when she still had awareness of her condition but capacity laws mean she couldn't off herself without help and anyone who helped her would be a murderer in effect.

Had a call on Sunday - she'd had a funny turn, paramedics were called out. I mean, it's essentially palliative now and she could go on for a few years yet. She won't be taken to hospital in emergency as she has a DNR unless it was a fracture situation, which is virtually impossible.

Because she followed all public health directives regarding diet, heart health cholesterol etc her physical health is reasonable, not withstanding the physical effects of dementia.

I'm POA. Every time the home ring up to confirm her Covid booster I say yes, because suffering with Covid would be grim and it might not kill her. A tiny bit if me hopes it causes a clot for quick despatch anyway.

The thing is no-one can know if the sunlight on the ceiling brings her joy or whether she has the tiniest bit of comprehension to be aware if "compassionate" imminent despatch on humane grounds. And call me a coward, I couldn't make that decision. It's a very nuanced situation. She's going to

Not if their opinion is fucking sick.

Not when the opinions are fucking sick, no. Disgusting

The government wants to kill anyone severely disabled or elderly through non treatment. You are 85 or severely disabled? Then why should we waste resources on you?
It is very alarming.

Yes. I work in care and some of the elderly folk I help are being kept going through huge amounts of medication and procedures with zero quality of life. I’ve had people tell me they don’t want to live anymore and it’s heartbreaking. I think the older people live the greater the chance of dementia also. I don’t know what the answer is though.

I understand both points

This and that some over 85 may want treatment

It’s a really tricky one. I’m not sure what the answer is either

@EverythingYouDoIsaBalloon Oh for goodness sake. Don’t be so rude. People are entitled to their own opinion.

No one is proposing taking anyone out and shooting them. They are simply saying that if you can’t provide for yourself, and you have lived a very long life, there is a limit to what you should expect the state to provide for you. You may not agree with that but it is an entirely reasonable thing to say. It’s incredibly rude to call people “fucking sick” or whatever just because you don’t agree with their opinion.

@Sunnnybunny72 I definitely agree that people in his position should be able to refuse treatment if they wish. I know that my Dad (86) would if he received a similar diagnosis.

Could your FIL ask for just pain relief instead?

It’s not sick it’s compassionate.

See this is the issue - somehow “non-treatment” is now seen as “killing”. It’s not.

That is really splitting hairs. Not providing life saving treatment is killing by omission.

The OP isn't about medical care. The OP is about councils cutting services in order to provide basic social care to the elderly. That's what the OP is objecting too. She doesn't think it's right that kids miss out on leisure centres to fund basic social care. Frail elderly people should be left in filth, unable to feed themselves so that kids can have story time in the library.

But non-treatment could easily translate to withdrawal of palliative care and in the case of dementia patients who can't communicate pain or fear that might mean a quicker but more intensively terrifying death. We don't know, and so the middle ground must be maintained on compassionate grounds not on the grounds of tidy book-keeping.

It is nuanced and a moral dilemma first and foremost, but in the case of people who cannot decide for themselves it's more humane to ease potential suffering.

Every case of this nature is individual which is why legislation and box ticking shouldn't be a sledgehammer that ends up cracking nuts that don't want to be cracked out of pressure from society trying to save money.

Social care is a rising concern. Asking how are we going to afford it seems a good question. Institutes are set up to think about it as it’s so difficult

Plus we’re not really keen to do our own elderly care, some will but culturally it’s quite low

It is saying we should let people die. That only rich people should get to live to over 85 years of old. Anyone else...tough.

@JL690 No, it isn’t splitting hairs at all. I think it’s a bit worrying that you think that. If someone was drowning in a shallow puddle and you walked by and didn’t help, did you kill them? No, you didn’t.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Younger/healthier people can often think that older/frail/disabled are a drain.

Somehow when they are in that position they aren't all booking flights to Switzerland.

Good old-fashioned nastiness

I disagree. You had the chance to prevent their death but chose not to. That's an active decision, therefore you killed them.