AIBU - motherhood has ruined men for me

[Bettercallsaul2024]

I expect I am being unreasonable but since becoming a mum I have gone off men.

I had always adored men but now I see an incompetence I can’t get past. My husband is an ICU consultant - can handle huge pressure and stress but can’t be trusted to pack a fucking bag for a day to the zoo. He can handle the resuscitation of a child but can’t cope when OUR child has a tantrum. (I too am a hospital doctor so feel like I can make the comparison, and I do appreciate the workload of his job). He would never cope being up all night with our ill child yet can do nightshifts in ICU - I don’t get it?!

and it’s not ‘just’ him. I now see it everywhere. All the men in my family, though lovely, have so much less expected of them. Seen as great dads when they take the kids swimming despite the women doing all the parenting the rest of the week plus having a job/career.

sometimes I say to my mum - how are men able to organise complex things like war when they can’t do the sainsburys food shop without ringing their partner at least twice. She reasons that it’s because men usually only have one task to focus on at a time and so can do it well - behind the scenes women are doing EVERYTHING else.

I find myself unattracted to my husband but also all men really. At the park I see dads standing on their phones, getting cross and stressed when their kids are upset after a grazed knee. It’s so ugly to me!

I KNOW I am being unreasonable. But do others feel this way? I know not ALL men. It just so happens it’s ALL men I’ve ever interacted with

YABU: this is a DH thing. Men are just as wonderful as women

YANBU: men wouldn’t last one day as mothers

My DP is the only man I know not like this. And I count myself bloody lucky to have bagged him.

How could we all have chosen so badly?
Men are on their best behaviour until the deal is sealed, they are motivated to win you over because they have a lot to gain from winning you over. Once you are captured that motivation is gone, they have power over you and so the predatory/exploitative instincts are triggered.

I know just what you mean, OP. It's the incompetence but also the realisation that men are generally quite shit. I know not all men, but as a group, men are also responsible for nearly all war and violent crime.

For me it's been a realisation that came not so much with motherhood but with peri-menopause. It's like the minute those reproductive hormones started dwindling the scales fell from my eyes and I suddenly saw men for what they are, and realised that women are the ones really doing everything.

I still love my DH though, warts and all.

Yeah I agree op. It's a problem. Weaponised incompetence- of course they are capable but if they do a shit job they know mums can't let their kids have poor care so we step up. Also the basics are seen as doing such a good job for men. Double standards

Those who say their partner does pull their weight I'd like to know who books the immunisations and dr appointments/dentist who gets new shoes in the correct size/school uniforms and all that mental load. And then- do you have a cleaner. Having a cleaner and me working from home certainly hid my ex lazy selfishness because he took the kids out and did the fun stuff so on the face of it gave 50/50. But the drudgery of parenting he never did

m.youtube.com/watch?v=fHGibUrew-8

This is a hilarious song on the topic

I think in all honesty there just isn't a lot of choice - even the so called 'good guys' are like this deep down, and they don't get castigated for it in society so they carry on.

Often until children come along women can convince themselves that he will step up and pull his weight, or that they have an equal relationship.

But if/when he doesn't, she's either stuck resentfully nagging him or ending up a single parent.

I'm and older mum (50).

I gladly gave up work when dc2 was born, followed by dc3 and 4. I didn't mind doing the domestic work, although I went back part time when dc4 started school but had bolloxed my career and struggled in low-pay roles, but we agreed that was the price we had to pay.

Unfortunately for me DH has now lost his job and the arrangement is completely non functioning. I'm working nearly ft still quite low-paid while he has picked up bad habits, only noticeable now he's at home eg

• not noticing dirt
• not cooking
• if he shops, forgets to check what we already have so double buys
• parenting the easiest dc only
• prioritises his hobbies
• frequently 'forgets' our (female) cleaner's name

It's SO unattractive!!

To be fair to men, there's two non-biological issues that don't really help that aren't their fault:

1. The example of their own families. My husband's family are very gendered in their expectations - my FIL has never made me a cup of tea in the 18 years I've known him. My mum made the pack lunches for the older kids the morning after giving birth to me at home, when my dad was there... It's not easy to tread a new path.

2. The way maternity and paternity leave are structured in this country. Two weeks as standard before returning to jobs that might keep you out of the house 50+ hours a week. I wouldn't expect to work into my husband's job and do it to the same standard with no experience, so the fact that he gets so much less practice means that he learns more slowly. I find myself standing back from gatekeeping because I'm doing something he's got far less experience of (and sometimes his experiments pay off).

Oh god I think it threatens their masculinity. That's what we're dealing with. Grim.

They just don't want to do it. It's that simple.

My husband does all the medical related stuff. Dentist we all go together and just book there and then for the next time. Husband does all the nursery bag related packing. We both get sent approvals for permissions etc, so it’s whoever sees it first. I cook the evening meal whilst he does bath and bed, he does all the washing up and cleans down the kitchen every night. He brings me coffee in bed every morning. Weekend we take in turns to have a lie in, but I probably have more!!

We didn’t used to have a cleaner, but all the cleaning was split, I would do downstairs and he would do upstairs (I got the better deal as there are two floors and two bathrooms upstairs - I hate cleaning bathrooms!). We decided to get a cleaner when our child was one as we used to blitz the house at the weekend together for a couple of hours, but couldn’t really do that as one of us would have to look after the child. We decide we both hated cleaning and liked our family weekend time too much so we have a cleaner.

Totally agree, and so does my DH. He just can't handle the 3D/4D multitasking brain olympics needed to manage such a range of different demands all at the same time.
However he does do his job really well, spends more time at it than me (I'm pt so I can be there for kids) and regularly vocally appreciates what I do.
If we couldn't afford it though I'd have to work ft and manage all the kid stuff, but I'd be very clear I would not also be chief houseworker if that was the case. It has to be 50/50 including housework/childcare/working time or it's just not fair.
Far too many women get lumped with working ft and ft children stuff, mental load, housework etc and that would make me resent and hate my DH tbh!

There was a dad in our park this weekend with his 1 and 3 year old who has completely ignoring the pair of them and I stopped his 1 year old being injured twice. He didn’t notice either of the times.

part of the reason was he was in deep conversation and being congratulated by some woman with older children about how marvellous he was to take 2 children out on his own 🙄

Private school. Raised by a nanny from 2 weeks old. Sent away to extended family during summer holidays, Easter holidays etc. Very successful career orientated parents.

Main thing I see with my DH is that if he has the option to ask me for help, he will, but if I just ignore the text or whatever, he sorts it just fine. He sees it as collaborating or something… I see it as trying to wiggle out of figuring it out himself. I think we’re probably both right to some extent.

Omg that is why women's experience is harder than men's in motherhood and that's after 9 months of tiredness, actually the pain and hell of giving birth and then 18 years of shouldering responsibility. It's ridiculous socialisation that doesn't "compute" with them. I read a good book called Womanhooded that helps explaining why but it's not right women are still doing the heavy lifting in the home 🤦‍♀️🙄

I think you're absolutely right OP. I notice it all the time now too.

My DH isn't totally useless tbf and he tries. He does do the annoying thing of calling from the supermarket or saying he won't know what to buy without a list. I just tell him I have no idea what to buy either and then make the best of whatever he comes back with!

Take a step back. Does it matter if he buys different stuff on the Sainsbury's shop? Sounds to me like you've back yourself into a corner by demanding it be done your way. Let him find his own way. Sometimes you might find it's better than your way. I share with my partner and just suck it up (or let the kids suck it up) when it goes a bit wrong. I'm much happier for it. Tbh, I've no idea how else you let a person learn than by taking your hands off the steering wheel.

Without some kind of national survey how do we know the extent of male ineptitude in the domestic arena? Well, I guess from what I see on line and what I experience myself at home., i.e. intelligent, capable man just can't/won't engage his brain with housework, life admin etc. so I have to remind, instruct, guide, suggest, delegate, supervise and so on. It's bloody tiring and I've lost some respect for him. You are not sharing the load if you keep referring to me for help rather than just getting on with it!

@umami89 I read a really good piece in the economist a while ago which blamed low birth rates on men, or at least pointed out that in societies with low birth rates they often have v unequal domestic work/childcare hours for men vs women and women in those countries cited not finding a decent bloke to have children with as their reason for not having them. Perhaps written by a woman!

It’s not the idea he buys different stuff in Sainsburys, it’s that he chooses to phone me multiple times whilst he’s there because he won’t organise what is needed etc. He phones me to check what we have already because he didn’t think to check before leaving. He then asks for a list, I send him a list. He then comes home with multiple items missing from the list because he forgot to get them despite using the list?!

another example is he was so excited to make cauliflower cheese at Christmas. He came home with a cabbage instead of a cauliflower as he couldn’t tell the difference. Fine. He then turns around and goes straight back to the shop, very annoyed with himself. Comes home with some more bits for Christmas Day that he’s seen… and he’s forgotten the cauliflower. It’s a 40 min round trip to our supermarket as we live in the countryside. And he then drives back a third time, the Saturday before Christmas. I wonder if it’s a neurodiverse thing, perhaps he can’t focus … but then I remember he is in charge of ICU! And thought of very highly at work.

I’m not saying that neurodiverse people can’t flourish in high pressure jobs - in fact I read a study that suggested anaethetists have higher rates of neurodiversity than general population.
More that I can’t understand how he can handle such complex things at work but seemingly can’t outside of work

Another great tweet I saw recently was something like “I know my husband wouldn’t have an affair unless I bothered to organise it for him”. I thought hilarious but unfortunately we know from so many threads on MN and from real life that men can be very well organised when they have the motivation

I blame their mothers to be honest cos she did everything for them and the most for my era went from mothers to living together or married to you.

I’d get but my mum did that dad didn’t bollocks

or your job isn’t as important as mine so you’ll do the housework yeah right matey not happening.

i still remember many moons ago getting asked and stropping into the bargain why he’d no socks like it was my job and I asked when did it become mine and he said your the woman. Well I never did his washing again ever. I know I was being petty I also refused to show him how to use the washing machine either. Strangely he learnt how.

Neurodiversity is such a bullshit excuse. In fact women have been historically, and still continue to be under diagnosed. Yet we still have to do it all