AIBU - motherhood has ruined men for me

[Bettercallsaul2024]

I expect I am being unreasonable but since becoming a mum I have gone off men.

I had always adored men but now I see an incompetence I can’t get past. My husband is an ICU consultant - can handle huge pressure and stress but can’t be trusted to pack a fucking bag for a day to the zoo. He can handle the resuscitation of a child but can’t cope when OUR child has a tantrum. (I too am a hospital doctor so feel like I can make the comparison, and I do appreciate the workload of his job). He would never cope being up all night with our ill child yet can do nightshifts in ICU - I don’t get it?!

and it’s not ‘just’ him. I now see it everywhere. All the men in my family, though lovely, have so much less expected of them. Seen as great dads when they take the kids swimming despite the women doing all the parenting the rest of the week plus having a job/career.

sometimes I say to my mum - how are men able to organise complex things like war when they can’t do the sainsburys food shop without ringing their partner at least twice. She reasons that it’s because men usually only have one task to focus on at a time and so can do it well - behind the scenes women are doing EVERYTHING else.

I find myself unattracted to my husband but also all men really. At the park I see dads standing on their phones, getting cross and stressed when their kids are upset after a grazed knee. It’s so ugly to me!

I KNOW I am being unreasonable. But do others feel this way? I know not ALL men. It just so happens it’s ALL men I’ve ever interacted with

YABU: this is a DH thing. Men are just as wonderful as women

YANBU: men wouldn’t last one day as mothers

I think they can do it, they just don't out of a combination of social conditioning and knowledge that a woman, or any female family member, will pick up the pieces. I know a single dad with sole custody of two preschoolers and they are thriving as a little family unit with very little outside help.

It's not that they can't, it's that they couldn't be bothered - they don't see it as real work, or really their responsibility. Strategic incompetence as someone else pointed out.

They wouldn't pull that shit at work because it's a 'real' job with status and importance and money (which bring external validation), plus men aren't judged on how clean their house is, or how well behaved their children are, whereas women are. So there isn't the same motivation to change anything.

Anything home or childcare related is really the woman's job in his mind, so if he does help out at all he thinks he's a fucking hero.

Thank you for all your responses!
Those who feel similar make me feel less alone - so thank you.
Those who have had different experiences is also great to hear - thank you.
I definitely see things through resentment tinted glasses. For me it’s not even a case of LTB because I’ve come to believe it wouldn’t be much better elsewhere! Unless I lived on a women only commune 😅

What would be healthier I’m sure would be if instead of ‘hating men’ I just appreciated women more. Women really do make the world go round

The reality is that children and the home have been considered woman's work for thousands of years, if not more. Some men have got with the programme but not all, maybe not the majority, even in the UK.

Some men pretend they will be equal then aren't, once it's too late. The hardest thing is that often the woman has no leverage to make him step up, he can just sod off if he wants.

This entirely resonates with me. I think the point about shared parental leave is an interesting one. I would love to see some research on this. It could help public policy.

I worship and adore women, they have been so good to me.

BUT, a relationship with a woman as a partner isn’t necessarily easier or better, it just has a whole set of separate challenges!

At this point, I am considering a life of solitary peace very seriously. I do need companionship and affection sometimes though… life is sometimes hard, but it’s also beautiful.

Hang in there and keep your eyes open for the beautiful moments.

I know lots of quite good and involved dads, but they are nearly all a bit shit in some ways, especially mental load stuff. I know a couple of dads who do do the everyday mum stuff (eg organising play dates and parties, buying the clothes, etc.) and tend to be ones where the mum hasn't been able to be primary parent all the time, so the dad has done more and it turned out that it's not just innate mum talent.

However, DP and I also noticed a big tendency for mums to gatekeep a lot of the childcare stuff, especially in the early day, e.g. among our NCT group. You'd see a lot of patronising or dismissive comments, e.g. if a dad enjoyed looking after the baby the mums would go 'if I'm not careful he won't give her back!' as though it was more her baby than his. So it's maybe not that surprising if later the dads haven't developed the relevant skills/knowledge or don't feel as confident. I think shared parental leave does help too, but many couples aren't eligible or can't afford to do it, and the scheme isn't well designed to encourage take up.

Was explaining this to my male partner who doesn’t have kids … his brother does.

I said yes your brother takes his two kids swimming on a Saturday.

the classes for which were researched by his wife, booked by his wife, rebooked by being in an online Q at x time by his wife, with bags packed by his wife, kids hair plaited and tied back by his wife, swim kit washed and repacked by his wife.

As one tiny example. He then drives two kids to the pool and she gets an hour at Costa or whatever. That she’s paid for heavily in mental labour.

the hidden mental load!!!!

I totally get this. I also find it insanely irritating when men are called "hands on dads" when have you ever heard a mother referred to as a "hands on Mum"?

It's not my experience with DH thank goodness, but with my ex it definitely was. It's why women are so knackered all the time, we don't phone it in at work or home. Whereas men give it all at their job then think they can kick back at home because it's all taken care of - yeah, by US!!

And the bare minimum expected for them to be Dad of the year! Reminds me of this...

No - but the bar is amazingly low vs for women.

I remember a close family member marvelling to me how impressive it was that DH changed our baby's nappy - congratulated for... providing basic care to their own child?

I am also always amazed at the conversations I hear among friends re: things like feeding, with their husbands having given their three year old an Ella's pouch for lunch, or a bag of crisps. Or calling them at work to ask what to give them for their tea.

I don’t think it’s a man/woman thing. My husband would be better than me at all the things you listed. I regularly forget to pack something, or ring when at the supermarket and I cope terribly with broken sleep.

But I lead a team at work, got promoted very quickly and make business decisions all day long, very competently. I also look after all of our savings, spending and investments. I’m just better suited to more academic tasks and problem solving than planning. But that’s fine because we’re a team who play to our strengths at home.

I think it generous to assume these men are just incompetent. To my mind the truth is they simply don't want to do those tasks. They seem them as women's work and beneath them, because they also see women (including their partners) as beneath them.
Otherwise, how do you explain that some
men manage?
Problem is, you don't know which type you have until you are juggling a job and a child. All men are great partners as long as life only consists of you both working and going on holiday.

@HaggisBurger regarding the mental load.

One of my friends was describing her recent holiday with two under-5s and DH.

She had researched the options, booked the accommodation, organised dog care, liaised with childcare re: absence, ensured everyone had the right clothes, packed for all the kids (clothes, toys, pram, medicines, bedding - you know the drill), done a Tesco pre-order to collect, liaised with accommodation re: arrival etc, researched activities and booked some, researched restaurant and booked some etc. Then for the journey she had go snacks, drinks, suitable toys, pre-loaded an iPad with their preferred programmes etc.

Her DH packed and then drove the car.

He didn't see the difference in input. Also - ignoring that the non-driving person might still be doing active parenting for the car journey.

And that's before they had even got there!

I absolutely agree about women "gatekeeping" maternity leave and then once a pattern is established it's hard to go back. It's almost like it's a reward for doing all the hard yards, which I do understand.

I am planning on taking 6mo maternity and my husband 6mo SPL for our next child. I am definitely scared of becoming default parent and really hope that him being in sole charge for an extended period of time makes him carry some of the long term mental load. I'd love a year away from work, but I think this will make me happier in the long run

This!

Agreed.

In fairness I think that was what I did in prep for holidays with my kids and my now ex . It’s hard not to be resentful.

Yes you can “delegate” some of that - but there is nearly as much mental load in that.

I do get that some women including myself are guilty of taking it all on and then complaining if it’s not done right / to the same standard. I wouldn’t have said gate keeping though at all. I’d have been effing delighted if my ex had said - I’ve booked a holiday, organised kids clothes etc etc

I agree that the gatekeeping can be counterproductive but I also think it's done on impulse/instinct and part of a normal urge to defend your own territory.

Hmm, to be fair, my husband and I are doing SPL, however he hasn't taken his part yet. So there is a bit of what OP is describing before he's done that.

We're the only couple of our antenatal group, and some of the other women now regret that they're not doing SPL, even if only a month or two.

My husband has been mostly great at taking over almost all domestic work and regularly looks after the baby alone, but it's a different ball game to being responsible all day every day with a child. The day to day planning of knowing that unless you wash this, prep that, pack the other etc, whilst the baby is asleep/happy playing/not hungry before you need to do the next thing is nothing like doing individual jobs or care here and there.

I don’t recognise this with men I know.

They are just as parent-competent as the women, and do their fair share of it all.

Men, like women, are all different.😗

Completely agree.
What pisses me off the most currently... All the articles about lower birth rates. Blaming women earning more, 'freedom', etc. loads of serious analysis as to the erm 'very complex reasons' behind this 'sweeping demographic change:.

Written by men.

Any woman would think the reasons obvious.

Oh, definitely - for context, DP and I are both women and she gave birth to our children. The reason we really noticed the gatekeeping was because (a) we didn't have any gendered assumptions about what our respective parenting roles should be, but also (b) we were really keen to make sure our parenting was equal. DP noticed herself instinctively wanting to gatekeep some things and not wanting to 'share' the first baby, so we had to work quite hard to make sure we got it right for everyone, knowing that our end goal was 50:50 parenting. It took loads of work, but I suspect some people think it came naturally because we're both mums! The straight couples falling into very gendered roles probably just weren't very attuned to it as it's the norm.

This is why I have some - very limited! - sympathy for the crap dads in threads where mums complain about things like the dad saying he can't get the child to settle to sleep or whatever, and other posters will come on and say 'of course he can, he just hasn't tried/doesn't want to!'. That's true, but if he hasn't been allowed and encouraged to from an early stage, it probably really is much harder, especially if the mum made all the early decisions about how to do it.

I know lots of quite good and involved dads, but they are nearly all a bit shit in some ways, especially mental load stuff. I know a couple of dads who do do the everyday mum stuff (eg organising play dates and parties, buying the clothes, etc.) and tend to be ones where the mum hasn't been able to be primary parent all the time, so the dad has done more and it turned out that it's not just innate mum talent.

I think this is true and I think that that too often the expectations for men are low, and they are socialised to think it's okay to be shit, so unless they're FORCED to step up/improve, they dont.

DH is still fairly useless at the mental load. But he has stepped up in a lot of other ways but it took a lot of effort and angst, on BOTH of our parts. And frankly, it only really happened because I am the main breadwinner. And this fight wasn't just between him and I - I have lost count how many times we have BOTH asked his mother and sister to contact HIM not me regarding, for example, extended family birthdays, additional childcare etc. And yes, he's often a bit shit so they come to me. But he and I are both 100% clear that' son HIM to solve, not me. And yet, they still keep coming back to me. I nearly passed out in shock when he told me the other day that he's picking up his nephews from school next week as this is the first time this activity has been organised without his sister contacting ME first. His oldest nephew is 9..... So maybe we are finally making progress?!

I hear you. I’m fucking jealous of my husbands life, the one I’ve created for him. I’m turning into a man hater. I’m now massively out earning him but carrying the mental load and running our family. On top of caring for elderly parents.

On Friday night I saw a female couple, so in love and happy at a gig. Then saw another female couple grocery shopping Saturday, properly sharing the grocery shopping load and honestly felt envious. I want a wife, I want a “me”. I’m not gay but I’m raging internally about the injustice and inequality of working parents.

YANBU. I absolutely agree and I would say I’m married to one of the ‘good ones’. I think I first felt this way when pregnant, working full time and growing a human. It was as if my reality (and even my views on the feminist movement and the idea women can ‘have it all’) shifted. I think your mum hit the nail on the head.