AIBU - motherhood has ruined men for me

[Bettercallsaul2024]

I expect I am being unreasonable but since becoming a mum I have gone off men.

I had always adored men but now I see an incompetence I can’t get past. My husband is an ICU consultant - can handle huge pressure and stress but can’t be trusted to pack a fucking bag for a day to the zoo. He can handle the resuscitation of a child but can’t cope when OUR child has a tantrum. (I too am a hospital doctor so feel like I can make the comparison, and I do appreciate the workload of his job). He would never cope being up all night with our ill child yet can do nightshifts in ICU - I don’t get it?!

and it’s not ‘just’ him. I now see it everywhere. All the men in my family, though lovely, have so much less expected of them. Seen as great dads when they take the kids swimming despite the women doing all the parenting the rest of the week plus having a job/career.

sometimes I say to my mum - how are men able to organise complex things like war when they can’t do the sainsburys food shop without ringing their partner at least twice. She reasons that it’s because men usually only have one task to focus on at a time and so can do it well - behind the scenes women are doing EVERYTHING else.

I find myself unattracted to my husband but also all men really. At the park I see dads standing on their phones, getting cross and stressed when their kids are upset after a grazed knee. It’s so ugly to me!

I KNOW I am being unreasonable. But do others feel this way? I know not ALL men. It just so happens it’s ALL men I’ve ever interacted with

YABU: this is a DH thing. Men are just as wonderful as women

YANBU: men wouldn’t last one day as mothers

My DH is generally extremely 'hands on' (am aware that 'hands on mum' is not a thing....). Gets loads of praise for basic functions like putting on a wash. He cannot for the life of him multi-task or prioritise though - I genuinely think he just can't. I still carry the mental load of what actually needs to be done, even though he will execute whatever I tell him to do. (E.g. he will do a shop but can't do the meal plan first...). I still get kids up, fed and dressed before I leave for work at 7.30 on my office days. I also wipe the kitchen surfaces to 'make it nice for him' for some unknown reason.

Add to this the constant pressure women also feel to look good, eat well, exercise, have a beautiful home....it can make my blood boil. And don't even get me started on the impact of hormonal fluctuations which men don't have to deal with - imagine feeling the same everyday of the month?! I would get so much more shit done if I didn't have PMT or periods. Rant over.

Slight tangent but this is one of the reasons I think paternity leave should be (at least partly) shared or changed so that men have more use it or lose it at the end. My husband used to have to ask what he should feed the baby, what he should take for a day out etc. Which i dont think was hugely unreasonable as I was breastfeeding and always with or around the baby, I was the default parent at that time. But it's easy for those habits to become engrained if you don't both try very hard to change them. After a few weeks on paternity leave he would just tell me what naps / food / adventures they'd had without any questions.

Have you spoken to your husband about this? Why does he think he can't pack a bag. Why isn't he doing anything to sort it, like making a list and asking you as a one off to check it? If its because he knows you'll check the bag so that nothings missing, why is it assumed that its your responsibility to be the 'organiser of the bag'. Does he not realise this adds up when you're also organiser of the appointments / batch cooking / clothes buying / etc etc etc all the million little things that seem insignificant but add up to a huge bundle of resentment. In my opinion you have to split tasks (eg one of you is in charge of uniform the other clothes) snd then grit your teeth and look the other way when it's done but not how you'd do it (although obviously not if it's done to a shit standard)

No no no - am sorry i grew up in a house with my mother the Martyr ( She still is) running around like a blue arse fly doing everything while my father sat in the living room controlling the TV. Yes he worked away all week, only coming home at weekends some times but he not a stupid incompetent man, he is well able to do things without being promoted , but because its not done her way she has to shove in every time and do it. Even last week, he was making tea for the grandkids and she had to shove in and take over so he just left her there. I clearly remember an older women in work telling me that in work and at home other people will do jobs differently, but you need to let it go and accept that while its not done your way its done. So i apply that now, the washing is not hung on the line like i would do it but it hung, it will still get dry, etc. We are lucky that we have a cleaner that comes every week, but day to day we both do our fair share and he cleans up after himself, prepares his lunch for work every eve ( something refused point blank to do as watched for years my mother making sandwiches at 10pm at night or getting up early with my father to make his sandwiches. My own sister is the main bread winner in her house, she travels a good bit. Its her husband who gets kids up every morning, fed and out the door every day for crèche and school, not her. Its him that arranges their bags and does their hair etc, unlike my colleague who wakes up her child on the days she in the office to do her hair as her husband seemingly cant do it ( have told her to tell him to look at YouTube ). Also like my friend who hasn't had a proper night out in 5 years as her husband seemingly cant put their children to bed. there is a combination of martyr, gatekeeping and not standing up for your self going on. Most Men are well capable of doing things. There are plenty of women not capable of doing things aswell, i know of one women who is useless that her husband has to get up every morning after doing the late shift to get kids to school, cause if he didnt she wouldn't bring them, if he didnt cook they would live on takeaways

The dads I know are all pretty good, to be honest, even though I said upthread that they were slightly shit. They all look after the kids on their own, share major parenting decisions, do their share of cooking and bedtimes etc. They'd probably count as 'hands-on' (!) for the purposes of this thread. What makes me think they are just a little bit shit is mainly mental load stuff, but also just a general lack of initiative - the things they don't do, they most likely haven't even noticed they're a thing - or they assume that their wives particularly enjoy doing them. Tiny, unimportant things that might not even need doing - but I notice only when I see one dad doing them and then realise that none of the others do. For example, there have been about a dozen birthday parties in my son's nursery class and only once has a dad ever been the main contact for RSVPs - noticing how surprised I was made me realise how much of a mum job that is - along with organising play dates, having other parents' contact details etc.

Have you read Invisible Women by Caroline Perez? It is everything you have described in your first paragraph and a good read!

This is the key. Complete responsibility for the baby for significant periods of time, including overnights, at early stages. And no learned helplessness.

I really really don’t want to be that person who mention’s neurodiversity BUT I’ve actually noticed this more with men who have very senior professional jobs. They’re able to focus on extremely complicated things that they have control over but children is not that. The noise, the overstimulation, the lack of control -
irs too much. They also see home as rest and tap out.

Whereas I have met some sahd and part time dads who aren’t like this as much.

I would also say that parenting is just rough. I feel angry a lot!

We don't (yet?) have kids, but I experienced this last week when our dog was extremely ill, he almost died. There was this one night which was really the worst and we thought he wouldn't make it (vomiting blood, going all cold, barely able to move and very much in pain), the vet said that he'll be fine if he'll pull through the night (he was right).
We both hat no idea how to help him. I was running around measuring fever, filling and refilling hot water bottles, wiping up shit und massaging his stomach, while my DH just sat there with bambi eyes waiting for me to tell him what to do - in exact detail, because how should he know otherwise. Then he fell asleep on the couch.
I am still so pissed thinking back about that night, if having children with a man is like this then I'm opting out.

I'm no expert in neurodiversity but if the overwhelm is too much, they could still go to a nice calm room and do meal planning/online food shop/RSPV playdates/organise birthday presents/dental appointments etc etc.

If home is their relaxing place (lucky them) they could do this on their lunch break or something.

Loads can be done behind the scenes.

I know what you mean about the birthday party invites & RSVPs! DH usually arranges DD’s party as it coincides with a very busy time at work for me, but we put both our numbers on the invites, and it’s always me who gets the RSVP messages, and the messages are always from the other mums.

It depends. Men I know who are great with the kids usually really wanted them as well.

Other times men like the idea of being a father, or just having the extension of themselves, but not the reality of the work involved.

One thing I've noticed is that even though my DH is much more organised than me with planning and will fully take on the mental load of shopping/cooking etc, he is hopeless at the strategic part of parenting. What I mean is he has no idea about what he is trying to achieve with parenting, what skills he is trying to teach our DS, what DS is capable of from a developmental perspective, what he needs to scaffold, what he is working towards.

Case in point - food and meal times. We're trying to increase the range of foods our somewhat picky DS will eat and to get him to sit in his chair for mealtimes. DH will regularly offer DS preferred foods while he's meandering around the kitchen, ask me if we should make him something else if he doesn't eat all his meal and then get annoyed when DS doesn't sit nicely and eat his food. It's so frustrating.

I really think quite a lot of men believe women enjoy all the aspects of parenting. I get the impression that's why some don't understand we might want a break. Or want a(nother) hobby? I don't even think it's malicious, it's a handed-down belief.

Yes! One thing we noticed as a lesbian couple before having our own DC was that at (family) parties all the men would end up chatting about interesting, grown-up things in the kitchen next to the fridge full of beer, and gradually all the women would melt away until the mums all ended up in the playroom keeping an eye on the toddlers. We could obviously pick whether we were in the girls' or the boys' room but the gender divide was very striking! It 100% hadn't occurred to the dads that the kids might need supervision, but if it did they clearly thought the mums had all spontaneously chosen to do it.

No I haven't but I will order now. Thanks for the recommendation!

I think in general men are more selfish and have less empathy than women, whether it's learned behaviour because of societal norms or innate I don't know. So they seem to be less able to comfort their dc who is crying or sick during the night, or in pain with teething, or even able to put themselves in their child's shoes (metaphorically) so that when they pack a bag they know that the child might be hungry, thirsty, messy, need warm hat/sun hat and provide all the appropriate items. Of course, namalt.

Very interesting point and I do agree. He would really struggle doing any of the caring aspect of the work that nurses or health care assistants do. I worked as a HCA before and during medical school. He had never worked a day in his life before his first day as an F1 doctor age 23.

We’re going abroad tomorrow for a week. I’ve organised packing, airport parking, flights, rental car, accommodation, where’s good to do stuff locally, where’s good to eat locally. Husband doesn’t even know what airline we’re flying with. He just needs to wake up, go to the loo, have a shower, dress himself, brush his teeth And get in my car that I’ll then drive to the airport. To be fair he will probably organise the car boot space efficiently. Wish us luck!

The reason they can't do 'stuff' is because they don't really want to. They probably see it as 'women's work' or beneath them. They have little interest in 'being good at it' - especially when there's a woman who can take full charge of all the mundane stuff.

You know what also doesn’t help is that I have a MIL who sees it as my role to facilitate my DH. I am a supporting role in his story. Even if we split up, I should still facilitate him so he can work.

It’s so fucking disappointing. And I can see how her influence has a massive effect.

It (very sadly) seems to be a common theme in my social circle.

All my friends are either separated or have similar complaints.

I can't think of a single female friend or relative who would say their partner / husband pulls their weight at home (these are all middle aged people in mainly middle class professions - law / medicine plus a few teachers) and those who are separated, only one has a true 50/50 with her Ex partner.

How could we all have chosen so badly?

OP I could have written this.

It's unbelievable. Lets hope our sons with finally get a cop on. They really have to.

Wow it really sounds like there is a lot of entitlement there @Bettercallsaul2024. What was his family dynamic like? Would they have created that? Public/private school?

OMG same here! I let him one year to do all that stuff for us because I was fed up with doing it always myself, and of course it was a massive fail (expensive one).

I voted YANBU because I see what you’re saying a lot on here and generally but having said that my son in law is absolutely amazing dad so there are men who can absolutely be the best too when helping bring up their children.

@Bettercallsaul2024 its not that he ‘can’t’ It’s that he ‘won’t’. Because he’s a hero when he resuscitates a child in a way he can never be doing what mothers do..Because what mothers do isn’t valued (except when men do what mothers do, then they are hero’s).