AIBU - motherhood has ruined men for me

[Bettercallsaul2024]

I expect I am being unreasonable but since becoming a mum I have gone off men.

I had always adored men but now I see an incompetence I can’t get past. My husband is an ICU consultant - can handle huge pressure and stress but can’t be trusted to pack a fucking bag for a day to the zoo. He can handle the resuscitation of a child but can’t cope when OUR child has a tantrum. (I too am a hospital doctor so feel like I can make the comparison, and I do appreciate the workload of his job). He would never cope being up all night with our ill child yet can do nightshifts in ICU - I don’t get it?!

and it’s not ‘just’ him. I now see it everywhere. All the men in my family, though lovely, have so much less expected of them. Seen as great dads when they take the kids swimming despite the women doing all the parenting the rest of the week plus having a job/career.

sometimes I say to my mum - how are men able to organise complex things like war when they can’t do the sainsburys food shop without ringing their partner at least twice. She reasons that it’s because men usually only have one task to focus on at a time and so can do it well - behind the scenes women are doing EVERYTHING else.

I find myself unattracted to my husband but also all men really. At the park I see dads standing on their phones, getting cross and stressed when their kids are upset after a grazed knee. It’s so ugly to me!

I KNOW I am being unreasonable. But do others feel this way? I know not ALL men. It just so happens it’s ALL men I’ve ever interacted with

YABU: this is a DH thing. Men are just as wonderful as women

YANBU: men wouldn’t last one day as mothers

When my wife comes home from work she surveys the house like Sherlock Holmes surveying a crime scene, and sees thing that other experienced detectives have not seen. Phone's off the hook, plants haven't been watered, dishwasher hasn't been emptied, garden hose not rolled up, and so on. There is a long list of things that we - being me, my adult children, the cleaner, gardeners and dog walker - have not done. The list is infinite. It would never be completed.

I totally get it, the bar is so low for men that the ones who do actually do any form of parenting seem to be praised for it like they are doing the mother a favour.

I think you are winding everyone up Mr Peterson8080 - 🤣

Thinking the same thing.

All those people and none of them can’t do the simplest task of putting the phone and garden hose back, empty a dishwasher and water the plants.

What’s the point of hired help, if they’re not actually doing a part of their jobs?

A grind?
If housework is easy that doesn't fit the agreed definition of grind.
I think some just like a complaint.
Perhaps DP and I can demonstrate how to make chores more enjoyable. There's a sense of satisfaction in completing tasks at home. Cooking can be a joyful experience, and cleaning while listening to music can be quite therapeutic.

It's the sheer amount I think. If I only had to load the dishwasher once a week or fold laundry once a month I wouldn't mind so much.

I really hope you are winding us up because if you can't see how this woukd annoy someone when the house is full if adults who could have done these tasks.... well, I feel.for.your wife. Because yhe question is... who WILL do them? The garden hose is perhaps not.essential but if I pat a gardener I would be cheesed if that wasn't done too. The phone off the hook is ridiculous and incredibly.lazy that not a single person can put it on. The plants and the dishwasher... these things need to be done. So who is going to have to do them?. Clearly it's the person who has been out all day while the rest of you sit around.

God, I really really hope you are just winding us up.

I

If your take-away from this thread is "the problem is that people just don't enjoy doing the chores enough", you and your Nigel have MASSIVELY missed the point.

I have had to try to ignore being at once baffled and irritated by the naïveté of some of the women accepting this with their eyes wide open.

I have partially come to the conclusion some of these women actively enjoy the subservience - almost like the kick one might get from a fetishisation of the powerlessness and the second class citizenship.

There may be a sexual element to this for both parties - that might be the “payoff” that isn’t immediately obvious.

It’s the only explanation that makes sense.

Otherwise it’s a horrifyingly unjust and brutal and savage state of affairs. So very distasteful.

@HowardTJMoon No, Mary Poppins covered this, we all just need a few more spoonfuls of sugar 😂

Perhaps DP and I can demonstrate how to make chores more enjoyable.

Great idea! You could visit all the husbands on this thread who cannot possibly figure out how a vacuum cleaner works, that cleaning the kitchen includes washing the pots and that their children need to be regularly fed. Just show them how enjoyable it is and everybody will be so much happier. Right?

I’m with the poster who is never cooking again once dc leave home. AND I’m getting a cleaner. I lived in a city a long time ago where it was the norm for working people to send their laundry out. It got delivered back in a beautifully folded package. I’ll have that too!
Honestly, housework is a never ending Forth Bridge that needs painting, and utterly thankless. No wonder men try and wriggle out of it as much as possible.
It is a shame their laziness and carelessness makes them soo much less attractive though.

It’s because we’re primed by nature for different jobs. I know that will irritate some posters but it’s the unfortunate truth. Men & women’s brains are wired for different things & they respond differently to different demands. Remember we’ve only been civilised with modern sensibilities for a very small sliver of human evolutionary time. The majority of that time has been as hunter-gatherers with very distant physical & social roles.

Nature designed men to be procreators, protectors, strategic hunters. They are more aggressive and fight for status within their group of men - jostling for power until there is a clear acceptance of hierarchical order. Boys also do this. Once order has been established within the group there is less discontent and the group can operate with singular purpose - which is necessary in order for it to hunt effectively. Men are designed to be less communicative, not show fear or any other vulnerable emotion (necessary survival traits when they are in life-threatening situations that demand they fight) and attend primarily to basic physical needs (including physical protection of their tribe.)

Women are designed by nature to birth and rear children. This vital role means they can communicate with each other with ease and they show a range of emotions that teach babies how to read faces. They operate efficiently and safely within groups of other women, minding and feeding babies and children and signalling to each other when something is wrong. They don’t go out hunting but stay mostly in the cave or wherever they call home. It’s safe there, and they control that environment. Women can preempt behaviour changes in others (another vital survival skill) that might indicate a threat or necessitate a caring response. They support each other in childrearing duties whilst the man or group of hunters is away engaged in potentially life-threatening hunting activity.

Women think about other people - men think more about themselves and their status in the group of men. As a group, men can operate very efficiently to carry out an aggressive intent; whereas the group of women have safety and care and emotional security as their common goal. Women are finely attuned to read body language - they can “read” their children instantly and can tell when something is wrong. Men can read people and assess risk but often fail to pick up basic human emotions.

Men are also designed to shag around - to be as promiscuous as possible which is nature’s way of ensuring the survival of the species.

Generally speaking. That’s why men can’t pack a day bag for a kid.

This is so backward and damaging.
No wonder men behave like savages if they’re constantly being reinforced with this toxic message, it’s quite insulting to them as well.

@BeadedCorset

Why is it damaging?

It's basic biology isn't it.

We have evolved so quickly particularly in the last 200 years We haven't caught up
with our ideas
Biology takes a long time to change hundreds and hundreds of years.

Perhaps This is why the younger generation are so gender fluid. Maybe Biology is trying to catch up? I'm
Musing

Also there are theories that ND is a form Of evolution too.

Or maybe our society is too demanding now
We can't have it all

It's
Simply
Impossible
To be everything all the time

Something will have to go and at the moment it seems to be mental health of both
Genders.

Clinking my glass to yours, OP

What does gender fluid and biology have to do with many men not being capable of doing simple chores and/or considering more than themselves?

Humans can evolve, build ships, skyscrapers, bridges, make inventions and technology that makes our lives easier but cannot have more equality, equity, consideration, and decency between men and women because of “biology”.

I fear for the future.

Mine has a compete inability to dress our DD....tshirt and tights one day, long sleeved vest under a strappy dress the next!
Apart from that he actually does the majority of the childcare, although I don't think her meals are quite as varied when he's in charge 🤣
Reading this I feel very lucky!

It makes me sad that there are people like @AStepAtaTime who truly believe this shit.

He clearly is able to dress your DD. It's not like she's going around butt-naked. He's just making different fashion choices than you would.

To the poster who quoted me, I can't post your username for some reason?- I think you're right , sadly. It seems to be a case of " I'd rather rule in Hell that serve in Heaven" with this type of man. They would rather the people they purport to love be miserable and thus, have an unhappy wife and distant children who can't relate that well to their dad, so long as they are on top, than have a happy wife who feels loved and supported by her husband, closeness with the kids and household where everyone feels valued because the husband and father gives more of himself and takes less.
I do think such men are fools though- they refuse to love selflessly and for a while, it works for them. But sooner or later the wife's anger and exhaustion overcomes all other feelings and she realises herself and the kids would probably be happier if he wasn't there. Then, she goes and sees a solicitor...! It does serve them right for treating their wives like appliances and their children as irrelavent/ nuisances/burdens or any other way which is lacking in love. Usually the wife starts to thrive after she's split form him and has a new lease of life. The children adjust, especially if he was distant from them because he was never really there for them anyway!
It is a sad state of affairs though!

exactly what's wrong with a the strappy dress and long sleeve? they are dressed but not to your standard? so he a disaster?

I relate to this- I was a nurse before I was a mum, and in fact I've been looking after other people and putting their needs first and neglecting myself since I was 17 years old. It became habitual and it's a mindset that's hard to get out of but I'm getting there, now I've split from my man-child of a STBXH and my actual son is an adult and a lot more mature and together than STBXH!
I think a man who is willing and able to look after others as well as himself is worth more than gold and diamonds, and unlike diamonds, are quite rare!
I also wonder if a stint as a nursing assistant shouldn't be part of medical training? It'd do them good to experience what basic nursing care is and the sheer hard graft it is, I think!

From The New Yorker today - "What no one tells you about parenting"

Your mediocre husband might not turn out to be an excellent father.
Surprised that your dud of a partner didn’t do a one-eighty and show up for parenthood in a way he’s never shown up for anything else in his entire life? Yeah, it’s a head-scratcher. Watch your friends’ jaws drop when you tell them that the same guy who still insists he’s “not good at cleaning” has discovered that he’s also “not good at getting up in the middle of the night.”

Sorry ladies.

More journalists mining Mumsnet for content. Our influence is obviously far and wide. A good thing in this case.