AIBU - motherhood has ruined men for me

[Bettercallsaul2024]

I expect I am being unreasonable but since becoming a mum I have gone off men.

I had always adored men but now I see an incompetence I can’t get past. My husband is an ICU consultant - can handle huge pressure and stress but can’t be trusted to pack a fucking bag for a day to the zoo. He can handle the resuscitation of a child but can’t cope when OUR child has a tantrum. (I too am a hospital doctor so feel like I can make the comparison, and I do appreciate the workload of his job). He would never cope being up all night with our ill child yet can do nightshifts in ICU - I don’t get it?!

and it’s not ‘just’ him. I now see it everywhere. All the men in my family, though lovely, have so much less expected of them. Seen as great dads when they take the kids swimming despite the women doing all the parenting the rest of the week plus having a job/career.

sometimes I say to my mum - how are men able to organise complex things like war when they can’t do the sainsburys food shop without ringing their partner at least twice. She reasons that it’s because men usually only have one task to focus on at a time and so can do it well - behind the scenes women are doing EVERYTHING else.

I find myself unattracted to my husband but also all men really. At the park I see dads standing on their phones, getting cross and stressed when their kids are upset after a grazed knee. It’s so ugly to me!

I KNOW I am being unreasonable. But do others feel this way? I know not ALL men. It just so happens it’s ALL men I’ve ever interacted with

YABU: this is a DH thing. Men are just as wonderful as women

YANBU: men wouldn’t last one day as mothers

@CypressSunflower you are ME! This 100%. DH used to have a fair bit of time at home alone (not working) as well as quite a bit of time at home with the primary-school aged DC (he was primary carer). In those days, he did more of the laundry as he was around more as I was working mostly out of the house. However, I still put quite a few loads on and would hang up as needed. The number of times he'd be doign washing at 10pm at night, clearly feeling hard done by.... I learnt to ignore him and carry on watching TV because there really was NO reason he couldn't hve spent 5 minutes putting washing on in the morning, and 15 minutes hanging it up whlie the DC were lurking in their rooms. If he couldnt' be organised enough, not my problem.

He is quite often responsible for unloading the online shop these days. it takes him FOREVER. I just cannot work out wat the problem is. But I just let him get on with it and refuse to try to compensate for the fact that he's been doign chores for 2 hours - those exact same chores could be done by me in 45 minutes. And if it takes him 2 hours every time, eventually he's going to learn how to do it faster if he realises I'm not going to step in and solve this for him. (the only rider I will add is that I'm pretty sure that DS' inattentive ADHD is 100% inherited from DH and, in turn, from MIL so as a family, they do have form for this).

I love comments like these. There's a great tik tok video with a woman who talks about this. She makes the point that often when men don't do the job to the same standard, it causes chaos that is inevitably a negative impact for everyone. Which is so true.

A half assed job is when DH tidies the kitchen but leaves all the pots on the stove instead of putting them away so I have to put them away before I can use the stove. Or when he's finished the washing up but hasn't bothered to wipe down any surfaces. It's when he vacuums but doesn't bother to do the corners so there are still cobwebs and dust all over the place. It's when he packs the DC's bag for a day out but there are no spare clothes or insufficient nappies. It's when I ask him to set the table when we have people over and he puts out knives, forks and place mats but no glasses, no salt and pepper, no napkins, no boards for hot dishes etc so I'm serving up and having to rush in and out of the kitchen to get these things. x 1000 when I ask him to set the table because we'll be eating in 20 minutes and he only starts setting it in 19 minutes.

In my DH's case, these are all things that he's learnt are not okay and stopped doing (except the table. I've now delegated table setting to DD - she's slow, but she gets it all done and provides clear instructions for DH), but lots and lots of women are dealing with this level of incompetence daily.

The nits mousse's don't do anything. Regular combing or a nit specialist can rid the child of nits. Especially now the nits have become resistant to chemicals like Derbac M.
I've never lived with a man and seen what you're describing.
Are you saying in all the times the dishes have been done by yourself they've all been done perfectly?
DP vacs his 3-bed apartment twice a day.
He washes crockery, glasses, and cutlery separately.
He washes clothes on a 35-minute cycle and dries 5-6 loads all in one day.

Am I expected to manage my household like that when we, live together?

Some people are controlling. Society is women and men so at least 50% of this can be blamed on women.

You seem perplexed that a patriarchal society influences the assumptions of both men and women. We are all raised in a society where the overwhelming message is that childcare and housework are women's jobs.

"It's women who brought up these boys". FFS. If the majority of the influence over a boy is coming from his mother, then the chances are that's because there's a father who's stepped back and done a half-arsed job. And both of them are assuming those roles because we live in a patriarchal society.

There are some half-arsed jobs that are indeed rooted in demanding that someone cleans the oven as frequently as you think it should be done. But there are others, like making sure there's enough food in the cupboard so your kids can have a packed lunch for school, that's either done properly or isn't.

How many kids do you have and how much effort do you put in to parenting them?

I know only two types of women:

Those who earn or work fewer hours than their men and therefore do more of the housework and childcare
Those who earn more or work the same hours as their men and still do more of the housework and childcare.

I am in the first category. I dont know anyone who has a 50-50 arrangement. Maybe I have a very limited circle.

I’m so relieved to find this comment thank fuck

I started skim ready and wanted to weep. Of f ing course an ICU consultant can get his kids ready for a day trip don’t be so ridiculous! It’s a choice he makes not to! Doofus dad yet highly capable in the office - make it make sense

Some of these comments are rage inducing

My DH and I split things 50/50 because he’d be out otherwise

We have 4 children between us.
We both have sole custody, both are high earners, nether uses child care.
I fuss and serve my boys, he has a great routine with his children he isn't compelled to do acts of service for his children especially now they're older.
His home is meticulously clean as is mine.

I'm glad that you don't have this issue and that you are indeed equal partners. But I hope that you realise that you and your Nigel are in the happy minority.

@Myb were you trying to say that women are better at organising etc. based on genetics?

I think not. I can tell you why it seems like they are better at it: because they get trained as girls to be dutiful, do everything to standard and look after others. It's the misogyny in society and even at home that trains them to be like that. My own mother was sexist towars me, her daughter, whilst my brother was held to a much lower standard. It shows now: he thinks mainly of himself.

The reason why I post is because it's yet another thread undermining relationships and attacking boys who eventually turn into men.

I have screen shotted this thread, Dp wrote back housework is easy people should stop moaning.

Oh come on. You know perfectly well that his standards are ridiculously high, as they would be if he was a woman. And of COURSE we've all met women who melt down because they want vacuuming done twice daily and can't cope with a single glass left by the sink <side-eyes my sister>

But that's NOT what's been talked about on this thread. There's a bare minimum that most people would agree needs to be done and that plenty of people on this thread have given as examples. And yet many many men seem unable to meet that minimum standard, even when given plenty of chances. Making sure dishes are ACTUALLY clean is a minimum standard. When vacuuming, actually getting ALL the spots is a minimum standard. When preparing food for children, ensuring there is some nutrition involved is a minimum standard.

'll never forget my male cousin rather gleefully telling us shortly after he moved in with his female partner that she'd banned him from doing the washing as he'd out his red socks in with her white underwear and everything came out pink. He was a bit bemused when we took the piss out of him and told him he should be buying her new underwear and obviously, every time he got it wrong in future he'd have to pay up.

Actually my DH is tidier than me and better at housework, though I am a better cook. However, I think he leaves the mental load to me because I work fewer hours, and escapes by being a workaholic, because frankly, it's more fun working.

There are a lot of women who have also bought into the idea that men are inherently less capable of these things. I've butted heads with my MIL plenty of times over her expectations of my DH.

I have started saying to my DH when he doesn’t do domestic tasks or forgets stuff “do you not do this because you are a sexist pig and think it’s below you”! It works as he likes to think of himself as a right on lefty bloke who would never be sexist!

I share many of your frustrations and although I am not afraid to challenge them I have also found peace in accepting some of them. It’s not popular but I think it is in women’s biology to care more. My husband loves his children but I do think it’s in a different way.

Housework is indeed easy. It's just boring and a grind. Which may be why so many men avoid doing their fair share.

I think you've hit the nail on the head here!
At work, he gets multiple reward for pushing himself- money, status, admiration, ego strokes.
At home, he doesn't get paid for housework and childcare, he wouldn't get status from that sort of work nor the same level of ego strokes.
What he WOULD get though, if he pulled his finger out, is a less exhausted, less stressed, happier wife who had more energy and time for him and a closer relationship with his children. He's a fool for not copping onto that!
I tried so many times to explain to my STBXH that if he helped me more, and was there for me more, I'd have more energy for him, but I was talking to the wall. I think in his case, it was as Dr. George Simon, the author of "In Sheep's Clothing" and "Character Disturbance" among others, says ;"It's not that they don't see, it's that they don't agree!". My STBX definitely has a disordered character I have realised but I'm not saying all men like the OP's H are character/personality disordered. It's just that I do believe there is an element of conscious manipulation in their uselessness at home and with the kids- weaponised incompetence and/or just plain laziness and male entitlement!

One of the things that annnoys me most is when Dh actually does housework, he expects a lot of praise and if he doesn;t get it- which he doesnt- he praises himself. I empty the dishwasher every single day and I don't make a big song and dance. I have made him pay for a cleaner now every fortnight at least.

Dp wrote back housework is easy people should stop moaning.

Or, or, people that are being moaned about should start doing it then? Considering it's so easy.

Then why is it so hard for so many men to do it if it so easy?!

Constantly hear many men say this, yet they don’t do it, do it half-arsed, and want thanks and praise for what/when they do when they rarely ever would give the same to women.

There’s also the things they think women don’t do that they enjoy to throw in women’s faces if women decide to be single or divorce their husbands that they think they are supposedly needed for like diy, changing a lightbulb, or yard work which also aren’t that hard either and often things that are not done on a daily to weekly basis year round.

Anyone else this this was going to be a post-birth post after a very large baby was delivered??

What he WOULD get though, if he pulled his finger out, is a less exhausted, less stressed, happier wife who had more energy and time for him and a closer relationship with his children. He's a fool for not copping onto that!
@Blubbled
My response to this is that he does not want a closer relationship with his children nor does he wants a less stressed happier wife.
A closer relationship with his children would mean he would has to tune into their emotions, think about their needs, spend time with them. He prefers to think about his own needs and focus on himself.
A less stressed happier wife would be a wife who is more in charge of her own destiny and therefore more difficult for him to control.
He values power and status, he wants to be in control of things so that he can work everything to his advantage. He does not want to cooperate with them, he wants to rule over them.

My response to this is that he does not want a closer relationship with his children nor does he wants a less stressed happier wife.

I think it's usually more simple than that. He does want a less stressed and happier wife, he just doesn't want it enough to get off his arse and mop the kitchen floor.

And some women live like slobs. Your clean partner doesn't negate other women's experiences. Also, you aren't living with him, as you stated his apartment.
A lot of us were also fooled by a man's clean place. And then when the moving in and having children happens, he still expects that clean place, but he expects you to do it for him.
The only blame on women is the same you will experience. That of thinking the one you are with is going to be different, because he cleans now.
Almost all of them were cleaning and taking care of themselves when they got with us. A good many of them continued doing so when moving in or marrying.
It is when that first kid comes that the majority turn into useless slobs, because now they have you trapped. By finances, lack of sleep, society, etc.

I disagree.

What undermines relationships is being taken for granted. Being told that there is no reason for you to be tired because you have had two days off, and then internalising that and feeling inadequate until you eventually realise that you have no time off. He just doesn’t value or recognise what you do. What erodes a relationship is someone that values your time so little that they are happy to leave it all to you even when they see you are struggling.

Housework is easy in the sense that most people are capable of it. Not everyone is able to do it well. And it’s the relentless daily grind that’s hard. Doing something boring repeatedly can be just as stressful as doing something out of your comfort zone.

Raising children is extremely demanding. It’s not academic smarts demanding, but the emotional labour is immense.