AIBU - motherhood has ruined men for me

[Bettercallsaul2024]

I expect I am being unreasonable but since becoming a mum I have gone off men.

I had always adored men but now I see an incompetence I can’t get past. My husband is an ICU consultant - can handle huge pressure and stress but can’t be trusted to pack a fucking bag for a day to the zoo. He can handle the resuscitation of a child but can’t cope when OUR child has a tantrum. (I too am a hospital doctor so feel like I can make the comparison, and I do appreciate the workload of his job). He would never cope being up all night with our ill child yet can do nightshifts in ICU - I don’t get it?!

and it’s not ‘just’ him. I now see it everywhere. All the men in my family, though lovely, have so much less expected of them. Seen as great dads when they take the kids swimming despite the women doing all the parenting the rest of the week plus having a job/career.

sometimes I say to my mum - how are men able to organise complex things like war when they can’t do the sainsburys food shop without ringing their partner at least twice. She reasons that it’s because men usually only have one task to focus on at a time and so can do it well - behind the scenes women are doing EVERYTHING else.

I find myself unattracted to my husband but also all men really. At the park I see dads standing on their phones, getting cross and stressed when their kids are upset after a grazed knee. It’s so ugly to me!

I KNOW I am being unreasonable. But do others feel this way? I know not ALL men. It just so happens it’s ALL men I’ve ever interacted with

YABU: this is a DH thing. Men are just as wonderful as women

YANBU: men wouldn’t last one day as mothers

You don't care about your own children?

I do think quite a lot of men are actually ambivalent about having children. They just sort of go along with it

I care about my children. I don't care about housework.

So if no cooking or cleaning etc was done in your household you wouldn't care, if there was no laundry done no clean clothes for anyone you wouldn't care?
If your household became dysfunctional because it wasn't maintained and your children suffered you wouldn't care?

I’ve just been away on holiday, and came back to a clean and tidy house. All the washing had been done, folded and put away.

When the children were small I worked away from home for months at a time, and was in charge of all four children (aged 1-6). He was just as competent as I am at almost everything.

Neither of us took extended maternity/ paternity leave, and I think that makes a difference.

“lol”?

What is funny about this sort of life? It sounds like he has zero empathy or respect for you. I’m literally furious on your behalf. I’m having a hard time understanding how you can bear it, let alone be amused by it.

How does this happen? I suspect some sort of continues brainwashing or gaslighting. Or does the act of having sex with a man regularly render a woman automatically subservient.

It would be fascinating on an anthropological level if it wasn’t so disgusting and upsetting.

I care about my children. I don't care about housework

Do you think women 'care' about housework because we really love laundry or something? Housework is something that needs to be done, so us and children have clean clothes to wear, pleasant hygienic place to live, food to eat, and so on.

Not as clueless as you think.

If playing dumb would get me out of mind numbing time consuming daily chores, I would absolutely do it.

Unfortunately, being in possession of a moral code and respect and regard for my partner prevents doing this.

The exploiting of a spouse into domestic drudgery cleaning up after me and my children would do absolutely nothing for me and cause me to loose respect for myself.

They often go hand in hand.

Children that grow up in dirty and unsanitary environments and go out with dirty clothes don’t thrive.

Yes yes yes. I am now a single parent and have no desire whatsoever to get back into a relationship with a man. I look at all my female friend's partners and do not envy their relationships at all- in fact I'm glad I don't have to put up with the shit they tell me about.

He does care for me in his own way. My midwife butchered me when it came to removing the staples he protect me then n took me to hospital after 45 minutes of agony the staples were removed with help of gas n air then the infection happened. I almost died with sepsis since then I have a phobia of doctors n hospitals he always goes with me now. Always tells me to rest and when I was out cold from the c sections and infections he did all the nappy changes fed the babies bought a £125 breast pump for my mastitis and made sure I pumped to get the infected milk out. Yes men are useless most times but mine was there for me when I was at brink of death. Cut me lose when I couldny take the pain anymore and was about to commit suicide. Now 5 years later I can look back way when it mattered he was my rock.

Sorry but can I ask what he actually does around the house that contributes to your life together?

PREACH!!!

It's not all men (my DH is a better "mum" than me! Usually more organised than me, takes on as much mental load and general house-related admin, and perfectly capable of looking after our kids for extended periods of time without any assistance) but it does seem like it's a large proportion of them

I feel for you on this. But I hate to say it, but I think this is the difference between a good man who just has been brought up/socialised to think one way and a man who is actively choosing to be crap.

I've had almost identical situations with my DH in the past right up until the "I flipped" becuase at that point, he actually stops to think about his shitty uselessness, is mortified, FINALLy realises he's being a dick, and changes his behaviour. In your case, clearly that did not happen. Which I'm sorry to say is a very bad sign.

Some women, my sister is one, do more housework than is necessary, to a higher standard than id necessary and then slag off their husband for not doing the same.

Some men, my next door neighbour, do sod all because they are lazy

This is a bit of a piece of string situation though I think. I mean, there are things DH cares more about than me and vice versa so we take on those responsibilities - eg he has a much lower tolerance for general untidiness than me so he is far more likely to spend time doing tidying to a level I consider unnecessary on a day to day basis. But if you ask him, he will concede that if I am the one doing the tidying, I have not left the house in a total tip, just not to his level.

Similarly, he has a much higher tolerance for a relatively boring and basic diet than me. So I take on the bulk of cooking and meal planning. But, if I am away for a few days, I know perfeclty well that not only will everyone be fed, but they will eat relatively healthily with fruit/veggies included. Just not to my standards.

Which is completely different to, for example, the man who doesn't really care about cooking so his children eat mcdonalds and pizza every day when his wife is away or who thinks is wife's standards are too high so happily leaves floors to get to the point that they are sticky.

My XH worked for an environmental company - surveying drains etc. often he would tell stories of when he had to be wading through raw sewage to get a job done and yet he couldn’t change a nappy without retching. This was so hilarious to me.

This is a real societal issue. The fact that the term ‘hands on dad’ even exists just proves how low the bar really is.

I have not once heard anyone refer to a mum as ‘hands on’ because they are doing what is expected of them. Men get let off the hook so easily.

When my sister had her son, her mother in law always preached to her about how lucky she was that her partner looked after the baby FOR HER so that she could go for a run. It really beggars belief.

Another real issue for me is how single dads are idolised. When a single dad with joint custody of their child is seen doing the school run etc people seem to comment on how dedicated they are. Single mums however, carry a stigma that they are unable to keep relationships and probably claim benefits.

I could rant about this all day but luckily I’m due to start work. I’m sorry this is your experience OP, you are absolutely not alone.

totally agree, OP.
I am childfree by choice for this reason- I know I would essentially be taking on all of the mental load of parenting whether I’m a single mum or not, and I’m not willing to do that with my life.

I wonder if this was better tolerated in the past because mums were more likely to have their own mothers and female relatives helping out with the kids. A lot of us have none of that but many men expect to carry on the same way their own dads did with them.

I think the root of this is poor emotional / social intelligence relative to women. Largely related to culture / patriarchy and also possibly a biological element (influence of testosterone?).

It is interesting that women are viewed as the vulnerable sex - physically we are but in a modern world with machinery and computing it is emotional and social intelligence that are in the greatest demand to meet the world's challenges. And in terms of intrinsic factors it is a lack of these qualities that stunts and shortens lives. Through poor mental health, violence (which rarely benefits the perpetrator), and self neglect (particularly emotional / social but also physical).

Who is more likely to commit suicide?
Who is more likely to commit a violent crime?
Who is more likely to abandon healthy habits?
Who is more likely to struggle to connect emotionally with their loved ones (with all the countless benefits that entails)?
Who is more likely to struggle to cope or even neglect their own immediate physical needs (in old age) if the other spouse died?

I suspect the answer to each of these questions is your husband, and on nearly every male-female partnership it will be the male.

This is why as we (hopefully) continue to dismantle the ways in which the patriarchy holds women back as the emotional and social support beings of men(!), there is a growing number of men who feel disadvantaged, vulnerable, lost. It's the whole basis of the men's rights movement. Some men are constructively looking at how to improve men's emotional and social self sufficiency in response to this, MRA's blame feminism and want things "back how they were".

Of course there are men with high EQ out there and likewise many women with low EQ.

I have sons and I'm really trying to emphasise connecting to their emotions, naming their emotions, compassion, empathy etc because I think they are going to need extra help with emotional and social intelligence due to being male in our culture. I want them to one day experience a true love and equal partnership with a woman (or a man!) that isn't rooted in emotional and social dependency.

Another real issue for me is how single dads are idolised. When a single dad with joint custody of their child is seen doing the school run etc people seem to comment on how dedicated they are. Single mums however, carry a stigma that they are unable to keep relationships and probably claim benefits.

This resonates for me. At DS school was a man whose wife had very sadly died and he was a single parent to 2 children. Obviously, an extraordinarily difficult situation. When I met the family, his wife had died 2 years previously, but I noticed how many families were still providing routine support/help to him in a way that just doesn't happen for women. My issue wasn't so much that he shouldn't get that support, more just that I found it frustrating that no woman gets that support long term.

A clear and honest post. This is exactly what I said in an earlier post about men not placing the same value on certain tasks that women do.

I had a baby/young child with a partner and then had one without a partner. Being a single parent is 100% less soul destroying. Even good men just aren't good enough.