Israel and Eurovision

[Carly944]

I've seen all the protests that Israel shouldn't have been allowed to enter the Eurovision. I don't think politics should be part of eurovision

Has everyone forgotten that a lot of countries at this stage have invaded each other, and that a lot of countries have a bloody and violent past.

The United Kingdom invaded many countries and massacred and killed many many people in the past.

Germany have obviously started two world wars.

Spain have invaded countries and done a lot of brutality to people in the past.

Should none of these countries be allowed to enter eurovision then. If we are going to put politics into it, nearly every European country would be banned from eurovision.

Israel is far from the only country in the world that have invaded and massacred people. Its awful, but it has also been awful when other countries did it. And many of them have. So I'm not sure why there was just the call for Israel to be banned

I wish everything for you that you wish for the Palestinians, in that case x

But not because people have done shit in the past, so we should continue to lower the moral standards. I mean it seems very cruel for forgetting so many people who are suffering and killed now, and take entertainment too seriously, it just show people who are suffering the rest of the world simply don't care. Very cruel

Not sure what your point is. Whataboutery is part of the problem here too.

Yes, Hamas are despicable and 7th was horrific.

Collective punishment of millions of people in Gaza is not the answer. Israel’s whataboutery is NO justification for their current actions.

Then maybe your question should be, what the fuck were the international community doing on October 8th? Once the scale of the attacks on Israeli civilians became known, the UN should have stepped the fuck up and done something. For example, roundly condemn the attacks as war crimes, which they were. Then demand the extradition of the Hamas leaders, such as Ismail Haniyeh, from Qatar to face trial. It would have taken the wind out of Netenyahu's sails and curtailed his ambitions to control Gaza.

Why isn't the UN actually stepping up and exercising the powers that it does have? Why isn't a multinational peace keeping force being deployed into Gaza and the Israeli settlement areas? Why isn't Hamas being forcibly removed? Creating a scenario that could help strong Israeli opposition replace Netenyahu? Anyone who actually cared about civilians on either or both sides would want that? But most people don't actually care enough to do the really tough things.

I have no idea why you're asking me.

Does that justify the murder abduction and rape?

Because you are claiming to have some sort of moral authority without actually having much of a clue. Israel can't let what happened in October stand, if they do, it will 100% happen again. Condemning them gets us fucking nowhere and does not one single thing to help a single Palestinian civilian. We have to look for solutions within the bounds of what has happened and where we are now. And when the things might actually help aren't happening, why have to ask why.

Well it’s good to know you wish me peace and for suffering to end so thank you

(I’m aware this was a embarrassingly melodramatic attempt at a PA personal attack but if I’m taking it literally I’ll take it as a compliment)

Do you not think they have the right to defend themselves against anti-Semitic terrorists?

I will never support war crimes however, but the suffering of Palestinians cannot solely (or even in small proportion) be seen as being down to Israel and not their own government

I agree with this and the downplaying of October 7th was unforgivable

The UN, on their support for both sides, have been as much use as a chocolate fireguard and the fact the scariest thing they can threaten is sanctions is almost laughable

Do you share this view when it comes to the Germans reaching breaking point with the sanctions imposed on them and the horrific poverty that sent many into?

Does that justify them reacting with the nazi party and WW2 in your mind?
Or is it just hamas and the attacks on Israel that you feel that logic applies to?

I was just pointing out that you weren't only posting about Germany and German things.

Not really what you asked but I really didn’t want to like Israel’s entry in light of current events but thought it was a beautiful and haunting song.

Ah ok.
I'm actually Scottish. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿👍

1930s Germany was a completely different kettle of fish. You're saying that there was a clearcut causal relationship between the sufferings of the German people and the rise of Hitler. I think it was more nuanced and complex than that perhaps, not that I'm a WW2 historian. I do have family who were deeply affected by WW2 though. Besides, I should imagine that Netanyahu and his gang have much, much more in common with Nazis than Hamas does.

Um yes. It's pretty much completely accepted that the harsh conditions Versailles Treaty imposed on Germany and the knock on effect that had on the ordinary public was an enormous contributing factor to the rise of the Nazis. It's so well-known and widely accepted that kids are taught it in primary school.

This is also what's taught in the GCSE syllabus for history. I

Shall we get an anti-Semitic bingo sheet going

It's not anti Semitic to disagree with Netanyahu's policies. It's anti Netanyahu's policies. It's totally unfair to label people who disagree with his policies as anti Semitic.

The economic situation in Germany in the 1930's undoubtedly contributed to the rise of Nazism. That's a widely accepted fact.

Yep, it's taught in the Scottish history courses at various secondary levels too ('the interwar years' was one of the main topics I studied for Higher History).

It’s anti-Semitic to compare the current conflict - or any - to that of the Nazis and Holocaust.

I don't know that it is tbh. Or at least it's understandable for people to see what's happening in Palestine and draw comparisons. It looks like they are being annihilated. The comparison may not be a correct one, but it's not difficult to see why people might make it.

Research both situations a bit.
You are imagining based on a complete lack of information.

Good for her!