Was my relative right all those years ago about me not working hard??

[Efogi]

When I was a child, I was quite good academically and did very well without having to try too hard or struggle with any of my school work etc. Got used to being a high achiever.

A relative once told me that I should watch out - breezing through school work so easily without trying much would make me too comfy and complacent and I'd never learn what it meant to truly work hard to achieve something or have real drive. He told me a story of how the most inteligent girl in his class ended up as a petrol pump attendant as after breezing through school as she didn't know how to work hard.

Fast forward to working life and after a slow start in my 20s where I probably coasted along and never felt in right role, I've done alright for myself but I wouldn't say I was a high achiever in work - more a solid and reliable colleague who's moved up gradually and also been in right place at right time on a few occasions too.

One of the things I have been told by a few bosses is I don't have as much 'hunger' as others.

I have colleagues that are workaholics, do 50-60 hour weeks and are relentless in their pursuit of targets/ goals. Sometimes they skip lunch and seem to neglect their wellbeing to ensure they fit more work in.

I've never gone to those extremes as I know Id burn out very quickly but I get what's on my to do list done well and efficiently, I work late sometimes when it requires it etc and probably go over my hours some weeks. I can't claim to be as relentless as some of my colleagues though and I wonder if there's something missing for me with that.

Recently lost out on a promotion and I've felt a bit downgraded at work. Made me reflective on my whole mindset about work and my relatives words from all those years ago have come back to haunt me.

Is my approach all wrong? Does it seem complacent compared to the workaholic colleagues?

I'd say I am ambitious but at the same time I've never wanted to be a complete slave to a job and sacrifice my wellbeing to climb to the top as I know I'm just a cog in a machine and can easily be replaced.

Feeling down about the situation and would be great to hear some perspectives.

This is so interesting. I'm pretty much just as you described and also wonder at times if I'm ND in some way

I find the 'working more hours' quite interesting actually.
My current employer doesn't expect anybody to work beyond their contracted hours.
However, it's also true that (figures made up)
Promotion requires a certain amount of experience, measured in both type of work and hours put in.
Someone who is efficient, leaves on time, etc can reasonably expect to gain this in 4-6 years.
Someone who works overtime, takes on more projects etc however can be ready in half that time.
Of course, some people, by virtue of having a good boss/right place and right time/right combination of projects, also get promoted earlier without the extra hours, but this is quite rare.
I notice a lot of the younger folk gunning for quick promotion - especially women. Trying to maximize their income and seniority before having kids, and THEN taking their foot off the gas. Which isn't a bad plan - buying a property + childcare is so expensive these days, their life would be so much easier on a higher salary.
What are we to do?
We can't stop people from working more - or not rewarding them - they'll just leave.
Personally I try to build teams with a balance of personalities and ambitions... but it's not easy.
The company as a whole has a good proportion of parents, part-timers, people with caring responsibilities etc so all good. But the length of 'time' it takes to get promoted naturally I feel is often overlooked. Also how, after a certain point, it has to be something you actively want and chase, rather than something which occurs naturally. 'Chasing' doesn't necessarily mean more hours, but working strategically towards a higher-level goal.

“One of the things I have been told by a few bosses is I don't have as much 'hunger' as others.

I have colleagues that are workaholics, do 50-60 hour weeks and are relentless in their pursuit of targets/ goals. Sometimes they skip lunch and seem to neglect their wellbeing to ensure they fit more work in.”

You’ve never gone to those extremes, and you shouldn’t have to FFS. Your workplace sounds toxic. Unless your salary is upwards of $400k or your boss is paying you overtime, I don’t see why the heck you need to be working 60-80 hours.

and when I see coworkers skipping lunch to keep working, I don’t see that as a good thing. I see that as someone struggling with their workload!

Don't be down on yourself - you sound fine to me. It sounds a bit like you feel you ought to be ambitious and over-achieving almost to a fault perhaps either because of past or present expectations of others or because people around you are doing that but maybe this isn't where you're happiest. Are you in the wrong work environment?

I agree with you that we are all cogs in a wheel and no-one is indispensable. To me success is measured by how happy you are not by endlessly chasing goals. I had a great career - company car, lots of perks, foreign travel. I liked the status but ultimately wanted out. Dig deep into yourself and do what's best for you alone.

Also to add OP I'm guessing your grade is 'middle management' - but as an individual contributor?
It's a great position to be in IMO.
Running a team is a completely different skill to just 'doing' the job. Even if you have worked with, mentored, coached people etc. Often people are promoted to people managers with little to no management training, and it's seen as an 'add-on', something to be tacked on to the day jobs, which they're good on. However, they flounder, because they're either not suited or didn't realize how much work it would be.
Also as middle management you get flack from both sides - those below and above you. It's a delicate dance, protecting the team from the shitstorm above and making sure that they work together to deliver.

You're so right. I think I feel compelled to push myself as always was an achiever and I'm surrounded by workaholics but I'm happiest when I have downtime or doing simple things like listening to a nice audiobook or going for a walk.

Yes I'm middle management, individual contributor now and it suits me well. I temporarily had to run a team at one point and didn't enjoy it tbh, a lot of stress

In my experience promotion isn't about what you do, it's what you tell other people you do. Has to be the right people of course. And in my experience the more senior the manager the more gullible they are and susceptible to flattery.

I was very ambitious until I burned out completely and had to take 18 months out.

Now I just want to get to 60 so I can take my first set of pensions and drop to part time.

I cannot be arsed with the professional bum lickers and toadies any more.

So if you're a natural introvert, can you lean towards roles where you don't have to deal with a whole load of people or compete with them? So stay away from sales, customer-facing roles or teamwork and gravitate towards research, analysis, data, tech, editing etc. I don't know what field you're in. If you are ND, there are companies like Microsoft who may actively seek you out. If it's more a case of not wanting to work all hours and you're financially secure - don't work all hours trying to be all things to all people. If it's mental stimulation you feel would help, as you achieved so much at school, have you thought of the Open University or similar?

Think about it another way though. Ignore whether or not you're "hungry" or "successful" or earning huge money. Are you happy? Are you financially comfortable? Do the bills get paid and is there a bit left for some nice things? If the answers to those questions are yes, then does it really matter if you're not at the top of the corporate ladder?
OK, if you're earning the bare minimum and struggling to get by then perhaps it's worth thinking about pushing yourself a bit, training for something new and a change of career, but honestly if you're contented, why should you worry about what someone else thinks? It's not essential to knock yourself sideways and work all hours!

Can't comment on your situation. My niece breezed through school. Many tales about her 'drama' at home in the morning: shower on, breakfast half eaten, almost done with home work on breakfast table when she realises one question needs a bit of reading but has no time, so she called on her uncle who is also intelligent for a 'quick answer'; then jumps in shower, finishes breakfast, puts on uniform and off she goes to school for another day. Family expected the 'drama' each morning.

LUCKILY, against our advice, she chose a hard course at uni- accountancy. There were other new factors in new city etc etc and failed first year or carried about 2/3 subjects to next year. I spoke to her. She then relatively continued until she finished. She got a job easily but she felt too comfortable, so on advice of my friends to advice her, I did start to push her a bit. Just little, but often. Soon, she was making plans for a master's degree in Taxation which is not an easy course, paying with her salary. I was proud. Now she is still in same job (but talked of starting her own consultancy but I think set up issues are stopping her) but is doing business on teh side. When I see her busy, being driven and wanting to perform at her full potential, I am very proud.

Her cousins who aren't hugely academic but passed, I encourage to their performance level - which I am equally proud of. So your relative was honest but maybe should have been more practical with advice. I would have felt guilty had I not encouraged my niece to perform to her standards, as it would be a wasted talent.

I breezed through school and uni, but I was always driven, ambitious and liked what I was doing. From a young age, mum always encouraged me to focus and work hard as she had done, so maybe that helped. What I did see was that, I inspired my brother who wasn't too academic, but pushed himself to my level and maybe beyond. I like that I was his inspiration in some way.

I think you need to forget about what your relative said all those years ago. Long ago I was at a flatmates wedding and we (the flatmates) were sat at the same table as her aunt and uncle who hadn't seen her since she was a teenager. They told us 'she was such a clumsy thing as a child, we thought she might trip as she walked down the aisle'. The woman I knew wasn't clumsy at all, quite elegant actually, and all the flatmates looked at each other in amazement at these crazy relatives who didn't know the bride at all.

The point is relatives don't actually know you the best and bring their own baggage to conversations. It's quite common for people to think intelligent people who do well academically are actually lazy or have no common sense. It's just a way to make themselves feel better about the fact that you did better than them.

If you are happy in your job then that's fine. If you want more then maybe you need to find a different boss. I had a boss for a long time who blocked me moving to another dept but when I asked if there was a path for promotion in our dept he refused to give me any opportunities to help me achieve that. He was a nice man but he had a tendency to put people in boxes. I eventually was allowed to move (6 months after I had that conversation with him) but it was quite interesting after he retired lots of people got promoted.

I'm the same. Breezed through school, college, uni and what I learned in my first years of graduate jobs is that I don't want to fight with all the others to be able to spend my whole life focused on work.

What I want is to be comfortable enough to be able to enjoy my life. So I'm happy enough to be fairly senior without all the stress of being actually senior. The salary and flexibility is good. Work life balance also good.

I've been with the same company for a decade now. I've slowly worked my way into a decent position. I could quite easily go elsewhere and step up, increase my salary etc. But that would mean having to "prove" myself all over again. I come with a "reputation" in my current company. I am helpful, hard working while I'm at work, excellent at my job and my output is always in excess of many colleagues. But I won't take any rubbish and I will log off on time (90% of the time, emergencies happen).

I'm happy. I could be richer in money. But I'm very wealthy in life.

I’ve only ever worked hard enough to have what I want in life.

As I get older, I’ve become less interested in status and possessions. I don’t care about badges on my car or clothes anymore and as such my work effort has reduced. The only thing I still care about from that perspective is holidays. I still like good quality accomodation.

I also work with wealthy older people in general and have come to realise that having pots of money doesn’t ward off illness and we all die.

You are what you are. Don’t worry about it.

depends on your priorities. If you want to know what you could achieve if you bust a gut 100% effort, then do it for a few years and see.

Personally, I am perfectly happy with about 90% effort and a more relaxed lower stress life.

This thread is so helpful. I've been feeling bad about myself at work for a weeks but this has given me a whole new perspective. I think it's hard to see the wood from the trees when you're embedded in a particular organisation and it's culture but stepping back I see that I don't have to measure myself against how my boss works

It's nothing to do with working hard and all about kissing arse and sucking up to the right people. Many people create the illusion of working hard as part of their playing the game approach.

I worked 60+ hour weeks, never off, always above and beyond. Didn't get rewarded for it at all, because I wasn't an ass kisser.

Started my own business and then I saw my hard work paying off for myself. The difference was crazy.

I don't know if anyone else has posted similar sentiments, but I now work very happily in a smaller organisation where effectiveness gets noticed, and we don't have a culture of working every hour god sends.

I didn't fit into bigger places, where there was that macho culture of having to be seen to work hard even if in fact you didn't achieve any more than people who worked efficiently.

This makes a lot of sense. The company I work for used to be smaller and when it was I was often recognised for work and held in high esteem. We've grown in last few years and things have changed a lot. Now the people who stand out are the best game players

You do you OP fuck what anyone else thinks.

I don't think your relatives comments actually apply to you. You work hard already, that's more for people who are happy just to coast (putting in minimal effort) and you aren't that. You do work hard and are committed but just don't want to do 'silly' hours or be a slave to the job. That's ultimately sensible.

Whats the obsession with working hard? If you can get by on not having to give yourself a breakdown then you're winning at life

This is kind of off the topic, but what job is a masters in taxation going to lead to? It's not the right qualification for someone who wants to be a tax consultant.

CTA, ADIT and equivalent are worth so much more for people actually working in the field of taxation. I work in this field and have literally never come across anyone who did a masters in it.

Also, what you're describing in your niece doesn't sound like the kind of "breezing" that the OP is referring to. I breezed through school and don't recognise the drama you describe at all - that's not breezing but lurching around in a panic.

The point is relatives don't actually know you the best and bring their own baggage to conversations.

100% agree with this.

The person who got the job won the employee of the year award and works all hours of the day. There was no way I could compete with that

Fuckin hell. Why would you want to? It sounds shit.

So much of it is about being in the right environment and culture so that you can work the best way you need to. It's fine to not want to kill yourself climbing to the top. It sounds like you're still a very competent, valuable employee but the conditions are puns you aren't right for you to thrive.

I will say though that working 50-60 hour weeks for a company seems like madness and massive piss-taking on their part. Since I started my own business three years ago I cannot fathom working that hard to make someone else money. Especially knowing they'd throw me under the bus at the opportunity if they needed to. At my last job I saw people who had devoted their lives to the company for 25 years at the expense of their relationships and in one woman's case, having children. When the shit hit the fan, they were made redundant. Fuck that.

I'm glad this thread has given you a bit of perspective and allowed you to step back and realise that there is life outside of work and no workplace can demand more of us than we're willing or able to give (and that they're able to pay for!)