Do Italians hate the English or is it the language barrier?

[SoreFeets]

Currently in beautiful Italy. Love it here but we appear to be hated by the staff in most places, especially food/drink settings.

This week alone we’ve had receipts thrown at us, we went to pay for a coffee in a little shop and the woman wouldn’t even look at us, took the money, looked really pissed off and immediately moved on to the next customer without a word (but was happy and smiley with them).

DH hired some bikes and had the keys thrown at him without a word.

Last night in a restaurant the waiters were deliberately tending every table but ours until DH caught the attention of one of them - waiter then took our drinks order but when we tried to order food he threw the menus back onto the table and walked off!! He then said something to another waiter who looked at us and laughed. Nobody came back to take the food order.

Now this exact same thing happened in Rome a few years ago, everyone just seemed to hate us. We would try to book a table in a restaurant and they would say it was full … before letting someone else in 😂

so I looked it up last night and I found no suggestion of Italians having a problem with English …. But what I did find was Italians have no time for people who have not bothered to learn the language.

Is this the problem? I have tried to learn a bit of Italian before coming but nowhere near enough which is obviously my fault. DH doesn’t speak a word of Italian other than Grazie.

We’re coming back next year and I aim to be practically fluent in Italian in that time! AIBU to think/hope we’ll have a totally different experience?

Argghh, just read that back are universally disliked......are Australians, Americans.

We were in Italy last month and no-one was rude, in fact most people were very friendly. None of us speak Italian beyond a few basic polite words i.e. Good morning, please, thank you (which we did use). I think you might have been unlucky.

I'm sorry to say that I had the same experience, while holidaying in southern Italy. I had been learning Italian on Duolingo and was trying to use it, greeting shop keepers politely on entering the shop, always smiled, was suitably dressed etc and it really took me by surprise because I was expecting Italians to be warm and friendly (which has always been my experience in Spain). It wasn't all the Italians I met, or even most of them, but it happened often enough to be quite noticeable and I do wonder what was behind it.

Interestingly we got chatting ( in English) to a restaurant manager and he said a lot of Italians envied Britain in securing Brexit 🤣

They have a saying down there along the lines of it is not officially summer until the first brit has plummeted from a balcony. How many Germans or Swiss do the same? None

Look up German Ballerman culture.

Honestly I’ve never found this. Were you in super touristy spots perhaps? Did they think you were American?

Ordering a latte after breakfast of the wrong wine with food. Italians are very passionate about food and drink.

Ive always had great reception from Italians. Lovely people.

30+ years in Italy here, living in several tourist places.

I’m so surprised ALL the staff speak German.
As a PP said it’s very much in the minority. All Italian students study English right through school. Maybe 1 in 10 learn it as their second MFL. The only place I’ve heard it spoken fluently by staff was in Grado, a historical spot for Austrian tourism. Even in the Rimini area they speak to German tourists in English. Same for Lake Garda IME.

On the whole Italy is very Anglophile. They recognize we have a similar level of population, class and culture. They were dismayed at Brexit and I often hear “If the British can do it, why can’t we?” about free motorways, social benefits or the NHS.

Some areas have simply had enough of mass tourism. Take Venice as an example. Cruise passengers come for a day, have their photo taken for social media, make life difficult for the locals and spend relatively little so why not fleece them when they DO stop for a coffee? €30 for two sit-down cappuccinos at Florian is not unheard of. And now there’s the Venice tourist entry tax. Good for them.

Some areas have 4 months of Summer trade to see them through the year, so the staff is short contract and the owners have to cover the rest of the year with the Summer profits.
So have a thought for the overworked waiter/receptionist/shopkeeper who might not have time for a leisurely chat with you.

I agree that knowing “good morning/evening, please, thank you” are a nice touch and will endear you to an Italian. But not “Ciao”, that’s like saying “Alright, mate?” to a lady shop owner!

One thing for the OP. Did you sit down at a table without being seated by the staff? That’s one way to get on their nerves and ensure they serve you slowly or even ignore you!

I’m amused at people thinking the rudeness is maybe because OP was skimpily dressed or they had tattoos Half the Italians dress very skimpily and are covered in tattoos.

I’ve travelled all over Italy and have always received good service. Even in August in Lake Garda. Sometimes maybe bit abrupt but this happens everywhere.

I can only say Ciao and grazie mille but this has never been a problem at all, no-one has ever been rude because of it. And before anyone starts, I already speak another language English being my 2nd learnt language. I always have my best intentions to learn italian too but so far haven’t got round to it!

Just came back from Italy (Cinque Terre to be exact) and had a similar experience too. We tried to say a few basic things in italian (e.g. ordering coffees, saying thank you), were always polite in resturants and always tipped, but its like as soon as they knew we were English they were annoyed! Although I did notice that other tourists (noticibly french) would converse in English too.

I do wonder if this is specific to areas though as we have visited Italy twice before and don't remember it being like this.

All the towns of the cinque terre were very small and extremely touristy, so I can imagine locals finding the crowds annoying and it must be frustaiting living somewhere beautiful that is overrun by tourists for half the year ? I actually felt a bit bad going there.

I wonder if cities are more tolerant of tourists because they are used to it being busy all the time ? for example I have lived in two popular tourist cities and its so busy that tourists aren't necesarily an issue and even if they weren't there, it would still be packed so what difference does it make ?

I guess its sort of similar to how cornwall doesn't appreciate becoming a hot-spot during the summer and losing local homes that are turned into private holiday rentals.

Unfortunately decent travellers get lumped in with the general view, and the nly way to show you aren't 'Typically English' is by learning a bit of the language , enough to order in a cafe or restaurant and exchange pleasantries, and observe other customs.

You can be a decent traveller even if you don’t speak the language.
It also takes quite a bit of time and dedication to learn a language to a level where you can “exchange pleasantries”. For most it is just not realistic. And I say this as someone who’s not a native English speaker.

Do mumsnetters really learn conversational spanish/french/croatian/greek/arabic/dutch etc when they are off to their one week holiday? Don’t think so.

As an anecdote, on my recent trip to Helsinki, I twice came across a situation where the customer service person didn’t speak the native finnish at all. All convo had to be in english.

@Kyokyo
People in the Liguria tourist industry are famous for their bad attitude. As you say, like the Cornish. Even the locals are embarrassed.
A few years ago there was a comedy sketch about them. “What’s on the menu today, please?” “A kick up the bum or rice pie. And we’re all out of rice pie!”

They do hate it if you order a cappuccino anytime after 10am. They see it as a breakfast drink.

It’s probably just bad luck OP, there are nice people and rude people everywhere, just the luck of the draw who you encounter. I have to say mostly people were lovely when we went to Italy but DD was a cute baby back then and we couldn’t move for Italian admirers wanting to chat with her 😂

OP - Thank you for this post. It echoes my experience.

A few years back, we visited Rome then drove to Sorrento, stopping at various other places on the Amalfi coast. Enjoyed Rome and Amalfi is stunning but we were taken aback by how frankly unfriendly and rude everyone was. NOT the 'bellissimo' welcome we were expecting. At. All.

Not sure why it's like that - it would be very unreasonable if it was a language thing. Who really learns a language to visit somewhere for two weeks?

I think the stereotypes about English tourists are pretty outdated. Depending on the type of resort (I am only talking about family-focussed resorts here - I’ve not been to any ‘lads abroad’ type resorts) the English tourists at their worst might have sunburn, leg tattoos, be out of shape from a bad diet, be a bit sozzled and be a bit loud, but there is a warmth caringness and consideration for others.

I have always felt anxious about how I’m perceived as an English tourist, but the really obnoxious people who stake their claim for some ‘territory’ using their towels, seem scary and hostile and so on, never are from the UK in my experience. English people are much more likely to say “sorry am I in your way?”, “After you”, or ask “Are you okay love?” - that sort of thing.

Even though football hooliganism is seen as having English origins, it’s spread to other nationalities. Even the stereotypes about Germans with their towels on the Sun loungers is no longer true. When I was in Greece, the staff were afraid to remove towels according to their policy because a Polish guest had beaten up an attendant over it in the recent past- they were much more afraid of men from Eastern Europe.

Rather than ‘everyone hates the English’ because there is something wrong with us, it’s more ‘everyone bashes the English because they are an easy target and they’ll probably still apologise when they’ve done nothing wrong’. It’s getting really old.

@SoreFeets

What are we doing wrong!? I’m autistic so I do struggle with eye contact and I’ve read Italians like eye contact so that is something I’m working on … any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Perhaps your husband could make a bit of effort and also learn a few useful Italian phrases, instead of leaving it up to you? That would be supportive of you too, especially given your autism?

Also maybe those Italians who you've perceived as rude still don't forgive because of Brexit? 🌹

This is the polar opposite of my experience of holidays in Italy! Both times we've been, DP and I have actually remarked upon how nice and helpful and friendly everyone's been, even when there's a language barrier. So much so that I'm now having Italian lessons because I want to learn the language properly.

Never experienced anything like this in Italy and I've been many times.

i had a very similar experience in Sardinia it actually ruined the holiday for me & my family. We are very polite friendly & fairly quiet people but the Italians were incredibly hostile to us and other English at the hotel. Awful.

We’ve found the same in Greece, perhaps especially in Crete, where old deeds have cast some extremely long shadows.

You seem to be in a German heavy area if the Italians speak to and welcome the Germans with open arms. Perhaps go to a more English part of Italy instead?

I have been to Italy several times, and always found them charming.
Which is why I have been back to different parts of the country.

OP, it sounds like you and your partner could definitely make more of an effort. Most guidebooks have a page of useful Italian phrases, such as "I would like", "please", "thank you very much", and "excuse me". There's also Google Translate. A little goes a long way, when visiting anywhere. It's incredibly arrogant to just expect others to speak English. Cringe.