Do Italians hate the English or is it the language barrier?

[SoreFeets]

Currently in beautiful Italy. Love it here but we appear to be hated by the staff in most places, especially food/drink settings.

This week alone we’ve had receipts thrown at us, we went to pay for a coffee in a little shop and the woman wouldn’t even look at us, took the money, looked really pissed off and immediately moved on to the next customer without a word (but was happy and smiley with them).

DH hired some bikes and had the keys thrown at him without a word.

Last night in a restaurant the waiters were deliberately tending every table but ours until DH caught the attention of one of them - waiter then took our drinks order but when we tried to order food he threw the menus back onto the table and walked off!! He then said something to another waiter who looked at us and laughed. Nobody came back to take the food order.

Now this exact same thing happened in Rome a few years ago, everyone just seemed to hate us. We would try to book a table in a restaurant and they would say it was full … before letting someone else in 😂

so I looked it up last night and I found no suggestion of Italians having a problem with English …. But what I did find was Italians have no time for people who have not bothered to learn the language.

Is this the problem? I have tried to learn a bit of Italian before coming but nowhere near enough which is obviously my fault. DH doesn’t speak a word of Italian other than Grazie.

We’re coming back next year and I aim to be practically fluent in Italian in that time! AIBU to think/hope we’ll have a totally different experience?

I agree with this.

Op, in general I find Spain to be friendlier than Italy. I think some Italians are proud due to their Roman history. So maybe explore Spain next time - Sun, sea, architecture, and great food. And if you go to cities, they are happy to talk in English especially the younger ones. Viva España 😃
And if you want very friendly locals, who are not expecting you to learn their language, go to India.

I thought exactly this at a hotel in Sorrento in 2019 - the waiters, the receptionists, the bar staff - were just really “off” and unhelpful to our family (the only English people there) - while being perfectly pleasant to guests of other nationalities.

Quite a few years ago, first night in France I ordered our meal in my very poor school girl French and apologised that I spoke French so badly

The waitress answered in her excellent English along the lines of at least I'd tried. She was quite disparaging about the Italians they'd had in the week before who just pointed at what they wanted from the menu

It could be because you don't speak the language, but I don't think it is acceptable.

Ime speaking a tiny bit of Italian is massively appreciated- we’ve always found that people are incredibly kind as soon as we try, even if they have to bail us out and finish the conversation in English. It’s definitely worth making the effort, especially as it’s a beautiful language and actually quite easy to learn- it’s massively easier than French for English ears. Very simple, consistent grammar and pronunciation, and relatively easy to get used to listening to it and picking words out, because they articulate so clearly.

I’m American and did not have an auspicious visit to Italy (I was shoved out of the way by a priest in the Vatican 🤨). I’m reserving judgment because I only visited Rome.

I can say I wandered up to a train ticket counter and a grumpy worker had a poor French woman in tears. After watching the exchange for a few minutes in my painfully broken elementary French I asked if I could help so she spoke to me in Franglish which I repeated to my boyfriend in full English who then translated to the grumpy ticket man in basic Italian. At the end of it she got a ticket. We then got ours.

I still wonder about that poor woman…I hope she got to wherever she was aiming and has not been on an epic journey for all of these years!

Honestly I'm shocked at how many people think Italians aren't friendly. They're super friendly and generous. they all do that thing where they sneakily get the bill and pay while you go to the loo. Or they fight because they all want to pay!

To be fair though while I've spent a lot of time in Italy (loads of family there so about 20% of my life) I've never really spent time in the south. And I've only been to Rome twice. So maybe it depends where you go?

I can imagine that in the super touristy areas locals might just get a bit fed up in general. Places like Venice for example, which apparently is being ruined by excess visitors but which also heavily relies on tourism for the economy.

having said that, I worked in hospitality for many years and dealt with countless tourists who couldn’t speak a word of English… lots of pointing at menus and miming what they need… I wouldn’t have dreamt of behaving in the way some people have described on here. And I’d probably have been fired if I had 😂 everyone has bad days but I don’t think there’s an excuse for rudeness on either side.

Italy is on my list of places to visit. In fact it's next up and I've followed this thread with interest. I learned Italian about six years ago to a good level but I'd need to really brush up again. I would not want to go without being able to speak a little of the language. I speak a little bit of French and noticed some hostility from a minority, probably no different to how it is in England where some staff are good, some bad. When I went to Spain I made the major mistake of learning Spanish but forgetting I was in the Catalan area. I definitely had some very angry responses from waiters. He shouted the correct pronunciation of water back at me and spat as he said it. DH's dad was fluent in them all and always said they assumed he was English and were much nicer when he said no I'm Irish. DH says it is because England tried to take over the world and treated indigenous populations abominably in the process.

Not defending rudeness of course, but just wanted to add how hard a tourist season can be for workers. I grew up in a very touristy area in Italy and everyone lives directly or indirectly from tourism. A wide range of tourists mostly Germans, Swiss, Austrians, Italians, some English and Dutch. The season is long now, many Hotels are now open 9-10 months. When I was a child, there were open for 6-8 months. Workers work 5-6 days a week, often late shifts and salaries in Italy are LOW. My friend’s dad is near retirement age and struggling with late shifts. He works in a very expensive spa Hotel but earns around €2K a month for 6 days a week.
He does not get paid when the Hotel is closed. Most Hotels in my area are family owned, the families do very well (several sports cars, long haul business class holidays several times a year, designer bags etc), the workers rarely get pay rises or a bonus.

workers have to smile, be friendly and chatty and polite at all times for 8-10 hour shifts. A lot of the younger workers take drugs to cope especially those working in the kitchens. My friend’s brother was a chef who is now in rehab with a cocaine problem. he couldn’t cope with 16 hour shifts under immense pressure.
All the local beauty spots are overrun by tourists and instagrammers and the roads are blocked half the summer. Yes tourism brought a lot of wealth to the area but for the average local it comes with many downsides too.

Interesting thread - I am half English half Italian but don’t sound like a native speaker in Italian.

My Italian family lives in Rome and as beautiful as it is, I think it is a mixed bag.

When I visited years ago with my Indian ex we did sit in an empty restaurant totally ignored and then left without ordering. Another time a restaurant running scams on Piazza Navona tried to make us pay extra and feel threatened about how much tip we should leave - they do it to a lot of people it seems when I then read the Google reviews. No doubt there are touristy places like this all over the world.

Generally however - and I can only speak for Rome - like everywhere else there are lovely down to earth and friendly people and not so lovely people. I think there are quite significant cultural differences however. And without a doubt Venice and parts of Rome and Florence amongst other places are overrun with tourists. The rudest thing I have found is people standing in the doorways of empty buses and not budging to let you on as they are so worried about not getting off at their own later stop. Then looking askance when you try to squeeze past them - why??

The thing I find hardest on a personal level is sometimes being looked at with mistrust when they hear my fluent but accented Italian. I love Italy and identify as half Italian, but in Italy I am simply a foreigner. And get told this often. In England it would be rude IMO to constantly refer to someone as an outsider / foreigner.

But no doubt Italians would find the less formal English ways strange and as someone said upthread theirs is a conservative society and I would add also pretty rule bound. And though things are better than they were, they are also behind in their acceptance of an increasingly multicultural society - London is a far more tolerant and cosmopolitan place than Rome for example - even though Rome is getting there IMO. There are now a million second generation Italians, and they are not going to put up with not being considered Italian. Ghali who performed during San Remo being a case in point.

Overall I would say that it is easier to strike up a conversation with an Italian person than with an English one - and I like that ease of communication. It doesn’t always lead to friendship however and people are generally very attached to their family in the first instance of course, followed by their oldest standing friendship groups.

Anyway rambling now apologies!

England tried to take over the world and treated indigenous populations abominably in the process.

Spain also tried to take over the world - succeeded with most of South America (why are the Catalans so averse to the Spanish dialect?), as did Italy (Romans), as did the French, as did the Dutch, as did the Belgians in the Congo - who were far crueller, as did the Portuguese, etc.

Think of all the non-European countries which speak European languages.

Having a decent sized coast and navy did the job.

There’s your evidence.

I was going to say, that DH might want to learn a little spanish history...

So tricky isn't it! We were recently in Denmark and I spent about 5 months on duolingo learning the language and was feeling pretty confident about it. When we got there everyone would speak to us in immaculate English, even after I started the conversation in Danish. So I guess my Danish was ropey and we had the fish out of water look about us haha.
It doesn't sound like you had a very nice experience. Could it also be that our culture is so overly engrained with manners. Pleases and thank yous and sorrys in every sentence, queuing and all the rest? Maybe its just not like that over there? I've been to France many times and always find them brash and rude, its only when you try to speak French that they ease up on you but try queuing in a shop... its touch and go 😂😅

This popped up on my FB feed today, and it made me think, lol

https://fb.watch/r-fSbu_m6Z/

Well if it was the case that Spanish treated the English badly because of their colonial history - they maybe need to look back at their own history (the Americas). Not that I think that would have been the reason. Some countries possibly but it would be just daft in Spain .

That sounds a lot like your FIL looking for confirmation bias. I don't know a single Italian who gives a damn about the British Empire - I'd be amazed if that was behind the hostility that OP has reported.

I've spoken Castillian spanish in Calalunya loads of times and never had this.
We went to a restaurant local to home last week and had shocking service. Sometimes it happens. I speak several European languages. My husband doesn't speak any but will try with pleasantries and we've never had anything that we could honestly say is down to nationality. Sometimes bad service is just that

I have never experienced anything like this in Italy. Infact, I’d go as far to say that they love me!
We're always smiling and friendly to them and they in turn have always shown us great hospitality. It’s the German’s I’ve experienced getting a hard time.
We always dress well in Italy , so we blend in.

Are you in South Tyrol OP? I lived in other parts of Italy for many years and only met about 2 Italians who spoke fluent German, both were teachers.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

everyone loves us.

Riiiiight, because obviously Spain never 'tried to take over the world' and never treated indigenous populations appallingly. It's just a total coincidence that such a huge part of South and Latin America speaks Spanish. 🙄Is your husband one of those people who thinks that only the British ever had an empire?

If if a waiter really did treat you in such a rude and obnoxious manner, that's on him. That's a disgusting way for anyone to behave, and I don't get why you need to make excuses for it and try to find some way of blaming yourself. I've met Spanish-speaking people here in England whose English is minimal. One man asked me for directions to the nearest supermarket or grocery shop by saying 'Where...milk?' I just showed him where he needed to go. It would never in a million years have occurred to me to be angry with him for speaking such basic English or to shout the correct sentence at him. I once had a young French woman asking me for directions in a suburb of Manchester, in French. She made no effort at all to speak English or even to ask me if I knew any French (I do, as it happens).

Edited to add a word.

I’ve noticed that Italians, like the English, like a laugh and a bit of banter. It’s often surprised me that I’m having a laugh with someone with a language barrier. I know that Italians can be rude when they are in ‘work mode’ - many, especially younger Italians, seem to openly resent having their freedom restricted in order to earn a wage, but socialising, people tend to be really friendly and fun IME.

Is your husband one of those people who thinks that only the British ever had an empire?

I think this is the crux of it, isn’t it? The French hate the fact that our ugly language is taking over and mandated that their radios have to play French language songs to stop the spread, some Germans I know told me there was a vote in America whether to speak English or German- English won by ‘one vote’ - it sounds implausible to me, but that’s what they think. People from many other nationalities hugely resent that our language, the English language, has become the ‘International’ language, not theirs, not Esperato or whatever. And these sour grapes justify them being horrible to us, and there’s no way English people will ever stop getting shit for it.