If you're a parent would you think this was ridiculous if I pulled you aside after school for this?

[L4815162342]

I work in a school.

A 5/6 year old today trod on a small bug. He did this on purpose.

I'd like to say it was because he didn't know better but this was half an hour after a lesson on looking after the environment and things we could do to care for nature. Lots was mentioned about animals, etc.

I pulled the child up and spoke to him about his behaviour. He essentially received the equivalent of a bad behaviour point as a result.

If you were pulled aside after school as a parent and told about this incident would you think it was ridiculous?

I know people have different views, some would draw the line at hurting an animal the size of a cat, for example, but wouldn't bat an eyelash at killing a spider.

If your child has autism you’ve probably heard of PDA. By going on and on to a child about being kind to nature etc it can make them want to do the opposite, you don’t know what neurology that child has or their history. As a parent of a disabled child you should be less judgy.

There’s no harm pointing out to them they shouldn’t deliberately hurt insects but you are taking it too seriously and they shouldn’t have been punished for it.

Perhaps you are autistic as well with black & white/rigid thinking?

Children of that age have not yet reached the age of reason.

Your expectations of behaviour and understading and capacity for moral consideration on the part of children that age are wildly inappropriate.

no i dont think i would want to hear that awkward conversation.

Was he killing for fun or just out of interest? I remember doing some horrible things to insects around that age (with other children sometimes). I have not turned into a homicidal maniac. I was vegetarian for many years for animal cruelty reasons (stopped for health reasons) and generally like and are kind to animals. I really don't think this is anything to worry about and I certainly wouldn't punish a child for killing a bug. I might say it wasn't a nice thing to do, but punishing and talking to a parent about it is OTT. If you spoke to me I would be doing many internal eye rolls.

I have also just spent the evening hoovering fungus gnats out of my bathroom where they seem to have taken route. I also squashed a few and flushed some down the plug hole. I don't feel at all guilty. I'm sure most people would do the same. It's not "naughty" to kill bugs.

Not all kids.

Some of them play with their poop. Some of them call their nearest and dearest poo poo heads when annoyed. Some of them tell their friends and classmates stories along the lines of "Mummy wemt to Florida and left us all alone" with a straight face. Some draw on the walls or est dog food or try out mummy's nice new lipstick, and some manage to put a car into neutral and steer it down a little slope, through a flimsy fence, and into the next door neighbour's swimming pool.

Some of them have imaginary friends they talk to. Some of them believe fervently in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.

People kill bugs all the time. They do it deliberately. It is completely acceptable in most countries and cultures to do so.

You and a few others here are trying to suggest the child is a budding psychopath. It's kinda funny, in a way, but also more than a little concerning.

Taken into perspective, it was a deliberate act of cruelty and defiance to stomp a bug to death having just learnt about respect for small critters and insects.

Doing so in front of the teacher was defiant.
Ordinarily we all do destroy flies and spiders and cockroaches for the benefit of our own comfort and health sometimes - but not usually out of cruelty or defiance.

So that is why I would be happy that the teacher alerted me to the behaviour of my child.
Did the child also have an audience?

Did he show the cruelty and disregard in front of other kids who had also learnt about the usefulness of insects etc - therefore belittling the teaching and seeming like a bully to critters in front of children who had just learnt to value them more?

We all do kill plants, insects, animals etc.. to eat - or farmers and processors do so on our behalf.
Some people hunt wild animals and preserve natural habitats so to eat food that roams free until eaten; some catch fish and consume them after the fish have been swimming in waterways and eating insects etc.
People at times employ firms to get rid of pests and rodents that are destroying buildings, spreading germs and affecting health and insulation etc.

All of these food related,sustainable habitat related and pest control activities are different to killing for sheer joy, showing off or being cruel.

A child is never too young to start to learn the difference and to be called out for acting cruel.

Its context isn't it? Directly following the lesson does seem to be more a case of deliberate bad behaviour. He had recently heard it was wrong and went straight out and did it. However people do tend to focus more on severity of the act rather than concerns about underlying motive, so you may get short shrift.
If you have to report every time you impose a sanction to the parents, then I'd keep it very light. 'Had a little word with Child today, as after the lesson about looking after the environment he went out and trod on a bug, so I think the message needed a little reinforcement that that isn't the right thing to do'.

Can you write a note in their diary thing?

I would want to know and also make an effort to reinforce the school's message. I am generally considered a bit weird though.

I would want to know. Kids know this isn’t ok.

Given that school regularly don't bother to say when my child has been injured by another child, I would be extremely disturbed by having this raised as an issue. If the teacher is bored, then set up some extra activities, don't roam around looking out for bugs and harassing parents. It's just a bug. The world won't run out because one 5/6yo squashed one.

I would want to be told. We have a very firm rule in our house about not hurting any animal, wasps in the house are caught and put back out. Last year in my daughter’s class a girl deliberately killed a ladybird at playtime and the teacher had a little word with the parent.

I think the approach depends on the type of bug to be honest. Whilst I would like to jump on the all living things are created equal train, the reality is there is a bug hierarchy. Most of us would not think twice about swatting a mosquito.

I think I would take the approach of educating rather than punishing - we don't squash ladybirds and shield bugs, they are good bugs because they eat smaller bugs that eat roses. We don't kill bees because they pollinate flowers which make the food we eat. We don't kill worms and woodlice because they are good for the soil and help us grow food to eat. We don't kill stag beetles because they are rare and special, and it's a crime to do so. If you see one, you cannot touch it, but you report it to a special person who counts all the stag beetles, etc...

I would absolutely correct the child on what they’d done and explain that it’s wrong, but unlikely I’d tell the parent. Too many memories of parents having a go at me (along lines of “what you trying to say about my kid?”) would put me off tbh.
FWIW my DC3 has never done this, he either leaves bugs alone or points them out to me saying “I think he’s going back to his mummy/daddy/house” etc, so a 5 year old is definitely capable of empathy/imagining other creatures having aims/lives on a basic level.

I think it’s more about setting moral and ethical boundaries for the child. If they aren’t given the chance to learn that this is wrong then Lord of the Flies here we come 🥹
The discussion about worms, fleas and mice is slightly different IMHO but it’s a conversation that you need to have with your children. Nature is cruel and we are simply an animal in that hierarchy but what that child was a deliberate and callous act. They did that in the playground so what’s next? Maybe tomorrow they’ll be one of those children who are killing cats and birds with an arrow or a slingshot. Is that okay too?

I'd mention it but not from a bad behaviour/ telling him off perspective.

This is a really common thing for young children to do. Probably more children do it than don't.

I'd only mention it because it would be a good time to have/ reinforce the conversation about caring for the natural world, animals having feelings, etc. But would not tell him off. Just would try to get him to think about it.

Jesus Christ the teacher needs a reality check. What an absolutely pointless waste of both teachers and parents time. I’d suggest the teacher needs a few lessons in emotional resilience if the squashing of a bug upsets her. Very rare I think teaching isn’t a good profession for existing teachers but that teacher probably should look at new careers too.

I can’t bear spiders etc and my life is a misery in Autumn term when all the crane flies are about… they seem to like school buildings!!!
But I have to suck it up and try and be brave because, however I might deal with it at home, understandably, I need to show respect for living creatures. (That doesn’t mean I go killing things at home, unnecessarily ,before you all jump on me!!)

Spiders - it depends how big they are if I have to call for assistance!! Everything else I will make an effort to waft out of a window or a door using a bit of paper or a book.
I hate it when we do any kind of mini beast project, but it’s my job! Somehow I manage to cope even though I’m screaming inside!!

I wouldn’t tell a parent unless it was a repeated action over several occasions and clearly a pattern.

I wouldn't expect a member of staff to report the squashing of a bug to me as a parent, but I would expect them to report the behaviour point, and explain why it was given.

As a fellow teacher, I would say that the OP absolutely does understand the emotional capabilities / limitations of a child of that age.

I would want to know, DS has been rescuing 'mini beasts' as he calls them since he could walk. If he did something like this it would be very very out of character.

I don't really understand the responses on here from people who deliberately kill bugs, why? They're not doing you any harm, there's a spider in the bath, move it. Only takes a second. I'm sure I step on ants etc without realising but I wouldn't just walk up and jump on a snail, how odd.

Do you have experience of children of this age? I work with 4 & 5 year olds but have also taught Year 1 and of course they have the capacity. 3 year olds can tell you why you don’t kill an insect and show empathy for the killed insect.

The expectations of children are so low and it really shows in the children. The amount of times I’ve heard ‘They don’t understand’ from a parent, who genuinely seems baffled that I’d expect their child not to smack someone across the face, is shocking.

I would think you were being rediculous , a telling off is enough .

Lots of 5 year olds won’t have any reason to think killing a bug is ‘wrong’ and neither would lots of adults. Just look in any hardware store and you will be able to buy bug spray, ant powder, fly paper, mouse traps, rat poison, fly swatters etc. Lots of children will have been raised in households where killing small pests, including killing them on sight is seen as completely normal. Your child may have been brought up to see it as ‘wrong’ but that’s because it’s a moral you’ve instilled, the idea that killing a bug is ‘wrong’ is not a fact or something which would be shared by every family or instilled in every 5 year old.

You’re being unreasonable to think a moral you ascribe to (killing bugs is ‘wrong’) is universal and that therefore the child should have known better. Killing bugs will have been normalised in many households because many adults won’t see any issue with it and will actively go out of their way to eliminate any bugs from home or garden.

You wouldn't tell the parent if the child said something unkind to another child as a one off or wouldn't share or demanded the red crayon. You dealt with it in the same way. It's done.

I'd be really irritated if someone mentioned that to me.