To find this universal credit situation unfair

[happypickle]

Myself and DH have 1 child and pay the equivalent of a 2nd mortgage on nursery. We are talking about having a 2nd child but we have to wait to be at a point where our first would be on their way into school as we could not afford to pay for 2 nursery places.

In laws who are in universal credit, have no such constraints and are in a position to try and conceive before us as SIL does not work and is a SAHM to 6 month old. They get a fortune in UC and have their rent paid and actually have more disposable income than us in professional jobs.

Don't know what I want from this post but just feel it's so unfair that we are constrained by finances but those on benefits are free to plan their family exactly as they want and they will have the ideal 2 years age gap which we would have loved to have done.

Pretty much this. The childcare years are brutal, but in the long term, you’re going to have a much better quality of life, Try not to let the apparent unfairness just now cloud that

A fortune in UC 🤣🤣

Sure they do, bet they have a brand new car and 5 holidays a year too.

I'd never be jealous of anyone who is renting over owning my own home, and if I was jealous I could always rent instead and leave my job
It goes both ways though. Many renters might be in a situation to buy if both couple continued to work FT and waited to have children.

Many renters begrudge home owners when often, they are renting because of the choices they made for themselves.

Of course it's unfair. YANBU.

@happypickle , I agree with you. It should not be a lifestyle choice to live off benefits and it should certainly not mean that you have more disposable income than those who work hard and pay the taxes that pay for those benefits. Others have said you will be better off in the long run because you will own your own home but should you or your husband require care or a care home in your old age when you die your home will be sold to pay the dept you accumulated which may very well eradicate your home’s value.
It’s wrong and it needs to change.

Yeah I agree. And there will be renters out there who for whatever reason it was just impossible to buy and they'd love to have been able to have bought. I dont think the OP is seeing the bigger picture.

Do you want to be on UC yourself? Do you want your inlaws to be poorer than they are?

Yes I agree with you, it is unfair. Nursery costs of £1800 to £2k a month per child. All the time being stressed and racing around trying to do everything. Not being able to try for a second when you'd like, but watching someone without these costs and pressures be able to plan their second whenever they'd like. I empathise with you, that is tough.

If you've someone in work, universal credit is generous. There was a thread on here the other day where the UC amount was equivalent to a £60k salary. And others were agreeing that they received that much also. Anecdotally, those I know on UC are better off now than they were in full time work.

The advice you've had from some kind posters about trying to be happy with what you've got is good. Ignore those saying quit your job and be a SAHM and claim. If everyone did that we'd be in even more of a mess as a country, and morally that's not right. I'm glad we have benefits but they shouldn't be able to be a choice if you're capable of working and contributing.

I hope you can work something out and good luck with ttc number 2

You at least have the security in housing, renting does not give anyone that same stability. They'd probably like that and a job too.

@Miley1967 now that is what is unfair about universal credit. Single mums are forced into work when their child is 3 but those with a partner can be a SAHM and continue to get UC.

Look, I get where you’re coming from. I have been in both positions, I used to work full time and as a single person (I had no dependents at the time), I was working my ass off and was a massive struggle to pay my rent and bills - let alone have anything to show for it. I’m now disabled and a single parent to a four year old. Due to my chronic pain, I cannot work and have to rely on universal credit. I don’t really count pip into the equation as I still got it when I worked as it’s not means tested, but I get the disability element on universal credit. It’s not a lot to live on and I struggle but I’m very grateful as my rent gets paid as I’m in a council flat.

I see the resentment - I worked so hard and was killing myself to work for that money and couldn’t afford to pay for things yet now I’m not working but I’m in a better position? It isn’t fair. But what is the other option? To strip people like me who can’t work of the little money I do receive so working people can feel better about themselves. Strip people of finances so they’re more on the poverty line than they are now? I have no luxuries, I will never be able to afford to own my own home… I cannot afford a weekend trip away - let alone a full blown holiday. If an appliance breaks, I’d have to put it on my Argos card and count any spare penny I have to try and pay it off in the time frame. Not going to lie, I have eaten soup and toast for a week when I couldn’t afford to meal plan for myself. It’s not all great on benefits, and it’s often the people who go on holiday and can afford meals out and day trips here and there and purchase a non essential item on a whim. These are the people who moan about benefits claimants being better off when we can’t do all that and have to budget every penny and often get in debt because of it.

I am getting suspicious of all these benefit bashing threads.

It feels as though there’s a plan in action to drum up hate for those less fortunate and on benefits, to justify, and get support for impending cuts.

A fortune in Universal Credit. Do they, aye? 🤔

UC aside…

… no it shouldn’t be unaffordable for a dual income household to have two children.

The cost of childcare is completely out of control.

We should be following the lead of Europe and making childcare truly affordable for those who are willing to have children.

I am also delaying having a second child due to affordability reasons - I am not eligible for tax-free childcare or free hours, but even on a high income the commitment to £4k+ a month in childcare is scary.

It’s the cost of childcare (and housing) that’s the issue.

Exactly

I do not know all their or your circumstances. You sound jealous so I feel this is clouding your judgement.

They don't get a fortune. And if they did then why don't you try it? Is it because you've made a choice to have the lifestyle you currently have over having a second child?

Yes, it's unfair that the current Conservative government won't help families who have young children, or want to have a/nother child, and who have a mortgage. The government killed off the benefit that paid towards mortgage interest and replaced it with a loan instead, didn't it? Maybe it should reinstate mortgage benefits.

But it daren't do that because, you know, it'd have to apply to those pesky immigrants. And then we'd have posters claiming they live next door to a foreign family of nine who get their mortgage paid for them and go on five luxury holidays a year and eat only wagu beef and artichokes and wear Prada to drive to the shops in their spare Lexus.

OP, YANBU - of course there should be more benefit to working, even in the short term. I don't think universal credit, for some, it's the pittance some may belive it to be.

I think it's unfair. A friend of mine had completely free childcare because she didn't feel like working and UC paid her so well (her words). I couldn't bring myself to be unemployed but the childcare cost being so ridiculously high while those not working (and therefore with no need for childcare) get it free seems backwards to me.

I just don’t understand how all you can see is that it ‘isn’t fair’ fair and are totally ignoring all the benefits in your situation for the long term as other have said:

Increase in potential earning power
Time with no rent or mortgage after mortgage paid off
Pension, potentially opportunity for early retirement
Potential to help your DC financially due to the above

For a start, a 2 year age gap is not ideal. You get 30 hours funding free from 3 if you're both working so just aim for a 3 year gap (and having done both a 2 and a 3 year gap, the 3 year gap is much better). Also, stop moaning it's not fair. Life isn't fair. There are pros and cons to both lifestyles. I'm now a lone, full time working mum of 3. I have a good job just still get UC top ups. But I also have the stress and pressure of lone parenting. Swings and roundabouts.

That can't be correct information. If your friend was on UC, she'd have been obliged to constantly apply for jobs. Otherwise you can't get UC.

We need to question why working full time and paying for childcare is crippling so many families and removing the incentive to work. Higher wages - can easily start by giving public sector workers appropriate pay rises in line with their skills - and properly subsidised childcare for all would help this. If parents work full time then this ridiculous set up of covering term time school hours needs to change.