To find this universal credit situation unfair

[happypickle]

Myself and DH have 1 child and pay the equivalent of a 2nd mortgage on nursery. We are talking about having a 2nd child but we have to wait to be at a point where our first would be on their way into school as we could not afford to pay for 2 nursery places.

In laws who are in universal credit, have no such constraints and are in a position to try and conceive before us as SIL does not work and is a SAHM to 6 month old. They get a fortune in UC and have their rent paid and actually have more disposable income than us in professional jobs.

Don't know what I want from this post but just feel it's so unfair that we are constrained by finances but those on benefits are free to plan their family exactly as they want and they will have the ideal 2 years age gap which we would have loved to have done.

The housing allowance for my area is £846 for a one bed flat. I’ve just had a look at rightmove and the cheapest one bed is £900. It’s 24 square metres, disgusting, and is effectively a corridor so you’d be absolutely fucked in the event of a fire.

ETA: next cheapest is a small one bed basement for £1000.

She doesn’t need a disability she could have the carers element for someone else, doesn’t have to be her DC’s could be anyone. There may be some other reason that her work commitments are reduced or lifted, that you don’t know about.

She may have slipped under the radar but she won’t have to pay the money back if the work coach hasn’t arranged a commitment.

You don’t want to be in your in laws position and have a second baby or you’d do that. You’re jealous they are having another baby and need to deal with that emotion. It’s not fair to focus your feelings on them.

@TwelveAngryWhiskers I’m in London. You don’t have to believe me, it makes no difference to me! Here’s the LHA rates for my postcode/area.

Shared Accommodation Rate:
£149.59 per week

One Bedroom Rate:
£298.15 per week

Two Bedrooms Rate:
£356.71 per week

Three bedrooms Rate:
£448.77 per week

Four bedrooms Rate:
£604.11 per week

@Crikeyalmighty LHA rates don’t apply to Council/HA properties, I’m pretty sure it’s only Housing Benefit that applies for those in social housing. I rent privately

Either you're in social housing or you're in one of the very few parts of the country where housing is still relatively cheap. By no coincidence these are often areas with few work opportunities and what is available is mostly low paid (so people often still need benefits).

Edited as I posted before you I saw your update

No idea where in London you're getting full rent covered for private rentals. I know someone paying £1300 pcm for a 1 bed flat in London. The LHA rate in their part of London is about £1200pcm so a £100 shortfall. (He's not on benefits so it's not relevant for him).

From what I understand central London has higher LHA rates than where he lives so I assume you're in inner London? However the rentals are higher too.

A 3 bedroom house in inner London is almost always more rent than the LHA rate. Often a lot more. Also very few private landlords accept benefits in London. It's a hugely competitive market and renters often need offer above the advertised rent.

The only exceptions might be if someone is (illegally) subletting their social home. It's very rare to find a below market rent private landlord and usually there's a reason (place falling apart, possible tax dodge or something).

@Greenbathroom see my above response

Just had a look out of interest at London LHA 3 bedroom rates and looked for 3 bedroom houses in London on Rightmove.

There's only one 3 bedroom house at less than the London LHA rates. It's £333pw and in Croydon so assume outer London LHA rate of £345.21 pw. Agent is called Homes for Heroes so guessing it's aimed at ex or current forces?

The next cheapest 3 bedroom house in London is also in outer London, in Erith at £369pw. That's higher than the outer London LHA rate.

Keyworker only. It's going to be difficult for a lot of people to meet their requirements - and being unemployed and receiving Universal Credit would automatically disqualify them (even before having to stump up so much cash in advance, including a fee, which I thought was illegal now - good moneymaking thing to charge people to fail a credit check, though).

BEFORE PROCEEDING, PLEASE ENSURE YOU ARE A CONFIRMED KEYWORKER. PROOF WILL BE REQUIRED.

The main or joint applicant must be in an employment contract for over a year which is permanent and not zero hours. We cannot accept student finance as a form of income.

Must pass an affordability check whereby rent and long-term commitments (loans, child support) do not exceed 45% of take-home pay + any benefits.

These homes are reserved for households with an income of less than £60,000 that do not own any property in the UK or abroad. Priority is given to NHS/Key workers.

If you are offered a property - your offer expires after 24 hours, in which you must submit all the required paperwork. You are expected to start your contract immediately after all the checks are complete.

Homes for Heroes offers 80% of the market rate rental homes with a choice of a 1 year tenancy which can be renewed depending on the conduct of the tenancy.

For more information about this property or to find out whether you meet the criteria for the scheme, please get in touch on the contact details above.

These properties are 2-3-bedroom family homes.

Upon move in, you will be expected to pay 1 month's rent and 5 week's deposit in advance.
The illustrations are of a typical finished Homes for Heroes property ready to let.

Whitegoods - They are part of the tenancy offer and cannot be exchanged or replaced by the resident.

Please E-MAIL your interest through Rightmove to be able to gain a viewing.

If you are looking for smaller properties, please enquire about IMR - Intermediate Market Rent properties.

Homes for Heroes is owned by Notting Hill Community Housing.

There is no sign up or tenancy fees payable, but you will lose an initial deposit of £150 if you fail the Credit Check and or we cannot secure satisfactory Landlord and Employers references. You are required to pay the £150 fee as soon as you are offered a potential tenancy with us.

As part of the eligibility process, it is advised that you do a credit profile check on yourself via Experian.co.uk to ensure that you have no CCJ's, bankruptcy or any involuntary credit arrangements as this will lead to you not being offered a tenancy with us. Please undertake this before you are offered a property with us.

If you are offered a property - you are expected to start your contract immediately after all the checks are complete (approx. 5-10 working days).

Upon move in, you will be expected to pay 1 month's rent and 5 Week's deposit in advance.

Well when you have to support two children with additional needs, one of whom has severe needs do come back and tell me if you still think being a SAHM is a lifestyle choice.

Everyone earning under 100K is entitled to free childcare hours.

I am talking about people who actually CHOOSE to work part time to spend more time at home AND keep getting UC to top up their wages so they can afford it.

and no, I never used UC. When I was out of work I relied on my savings from my work. Which is pretty normal thing to do - benefits should be a SAFETY net for those who really can’t survive without them, not used for people who can earn but choose not to, because it is nicer to spend more time with their kids (of course it is; too bad those paying into the system cant spend less time with their kids).

(And I am on high income because I made a choice before starting university that I need to be in profession with high income, because my family was poor, and worked towards that)

I meant the two year funding for two year olds from low incomes in England.

It is unfair but you'll have people here to tell you "go in benefits then, it's your choice" errrm slight issue, if everyone did that then the benefits system would collapse, that's why it is important better wages are paid and benefits are only for short term, not a lifestyle choice.

I don't see the issue with that as long as they work? It kind of makes sense to minimise nursery fees and spend time with your child if you can. I suspect that you along with many others would choose the same.

Obviously it a choice for you, but not all People on benefits choosing to be SAH parents have disabled kids ...

*not a choice for you

Plus how many have enough savings to cover a few months out of work? Not many. So many here are completely out of touch.

@DodoTired I just want you to read a different perspective infact it's actually my own. Before I became a mum I had my life together and I had savings. However fast forward 9 years and I am a single parent to a 9 year old, ex is an abusive higher earner. I work part time because although on paper we co parent he has refused to do a single school run. Ds school does not have a after school club to enable me to even work till 4pm. Holiday camps are non existing in my area so whilst I travel it's only beneficial to a limited extent!. No family support. I do work 2 jobs also but there's only so much I can outsource.

This isn't a life style choice this is many people's reality. As a "professional" you seem to be very short sighted indeed!.

From what I gather from my friends with one child born before 2017

I'm using new prices as easier

Single is £383
Couple £617
Child £333

They recently Split up but as a couple got just under 1000

But then as both work and had to earn think £1300/1400 and lost the .55per £ they ended up usually getting around 69/99 a month

But now they've split both 383 and the dad has custody (rare) so he gets the 333 but both still working and now need to earn around £1100 so being apart they are both better off each month esp by the dad by getting around £369 a month

Unless your friend without the child element on her claim has other elements on, they won’t get any UC if she is earning £700+.

You are also forgetting they will have two lots of daily living costs, so not really better off.

I think it is pretty clear I am talking not about you but about those for whom it is actually a choice. There are plenty of threads even on mumsnet where people admit that they work part time because they don’t WANT to work full time, and enjoy free childcare hours (which high earners do not receive) and sometimes UC top up.

do apply some critical thinking please to understand not everything is about you - a mention of UC and part time does not mean I am talking about your situation. Benefits should be a safety net to help those who really need them. Like you.
But not those who have actually options and just made a lifestyle choice.

I explained above what the issue is. But I will repeat. They work very little so that they put into the system less than they take out. Whereas high earners (whom the country needs to subsidise that - the tax income is now disproportionately on small-ish percentage of high earners) do not get subsidised childcare and obviously many other benefits and their jobs do not allow them to go part time that easily.

if large numbers of high earners will get fed up with this, they will (and it’s already happening):

• move to another country (so UK will loose out on tax revenue-> less money for benefits for low earners)
• find a way to go part time/reduce their earnings (UK again will lose out on tax revenue)

all of this is happening already. A lot of high earners are very economically mobile and can and are moving elsewhere. additionally, a lot of doctors are reducing their hours which means longer NHS waiting times.

so what I said is that the system is very dumb because it at the same time discourages contributors from earning (and paying in) more, and at the same time encourages part time work, with top ups from the government. It is unsustainable.

Oh really @Headfirstintothewild She said she got around £100

Obv the dad gets more as has the child element

But yes 2 costs of bills

Having worked out the calculation, the tipping point is £716 for someone who only gets the single over 25 standard element (which is £393.45). There’s no work allowance for claimants without DC unless they have LCW/LCWRA). Earnings of £716 give an earnings deduction of £393.80 (£716 x 0.55 = £393.80) which would wipe out the standard element. If she is earning more than that she must have another element on her claim.