To find this universal credit situation unfair

[happypickle]

Myself and DH have 1 child and pay the equivalent of a 2nd mortgage on nursery. We are talking about having a 2nd child but we have to wait to be at a point where our first would be on their way into school as we could not afford to pay for 2 nursery places.

In laws who are in universal credit, have no such constraints and are in a position to try and conceive before us as SIL does not work and is a SAHM to 6 month old. They get a fortune in UC and have their rent paid and actually have more disposable income than us in professional jobs.

Don't know what I want from this post but just feel it's so unfair that we are constrained by finances but those on benefits are free to plan their family exactly as they want and they will have the ideal 2 years age gap which we would have loved to have done.

I agree it's not fair, my husband earns a decent wage but we are scraping by

Can you work around him to top it up?

Really? Because as someone on benefits (UC and Carers) the only free childcare my children have been entitled to that isn’t available to others is 15 hours Terrific Twos. Otherwise it’s been the universal free hours for 3 year olds, I pay £100 a month for after school childcare for my eldest that enables me to do a somewhat complicated school run and not entitled to UC help as I’m not in paid employment. So not sure what amazing childcare your friend is entitled to that others aren’t…

These posts annoy me (and yes I know i don't have to read them) but how can you possibly think anyone on benefits is better off than two working parents?
When we were on benefits most of the time DH and I didn't eat because we couldn't afford to. Sold the car, took DD out of nursery and we still struggled. Yes we got some money towards our rent (I'm willing to bet your ILs don't get all their rent paid for) but life was incredibly hard.
Since then we've both been lucky enough to be employed and have far more money than we ever did on benefits. DS is now coming to the end of nursery ( we were lucky with childcare, because I work in the nursing we get 50% off our fees) but we can actually save money now and thankfully the days of seeing on 60p in our back account are over.
I don't begrudge people on benefits, not only do they have no money but society (and family) slag them off.

@Greyheronsarethebest sorry- that really wasn't quite how I intended it to sound- what I meant was they won't be getting 'enhanced' benefits - to the level that the OP might perceive as 'doing nicely thank you' and will actually be quite meagre if you take out the rent aspect- I don't begrudge any with disability anything .

www.housingsystems.co.uk/News/News-Articles/id/107

The table here in this article shows how generous UC can be

Exactly!

Its funny how these sorts of people moan about how hard done by they are compared to those on a lower income but would never actually choose to have a lower income, because they know they’d be worse off.

There was a thread a while back saying how people on £60k+ were worse off than those on £18k a year.
They could easily get a NMW job but they choose not to (because they know they’d be much worse off) and just continue to moan about not having FSM or UC etc.

A 2 year age gap isn't really ideal. It's better to space them out a bit so you can spend time with each one properly on mat leave. Plus SIL would be smarter to leave 3 years between dcs so she won't be required to look for work for 6 years. In my day you didn't have to seek work until the youngest was 5 so I spaced my dcs accordingly (3 dcs so 15 years of sahm).

Well why not hand both your notices in then?

Clever you 🙄

I'm sure your in-laws don't receive a "fortune" from UC. There are set amounts that people receive depending on their income, number of children etc and there is also a benefit cap. They will also be required to look for work once their child turns two years old.
The idea that people on UC receive tons of money is false.

I have found myself in the UC system in the past. I would choose work over UC without a doubt.

You can earn large gross amounts and still claim, dependant on your circumstances.

There was a thread on here where someone was getting more than £60k gross in benefits. To answer the PP, yes I do know people who have decided not to work and stay at home because they are better off than working and covering childcare. While it's a possibility, of course people will do it. I sometimes feel a bit resentful when working long hours and missing time with my children, to pay huge amounts of tax. Like @MidnightPatrol we're fortunate not to need tax free childcare etc, but two lots of nursery fees are very tough (almost £4K) and with mortgage, bills, commuting costs etc its not easy. So it's sometimes hard to see people choosing not to work, or choosing to work part time and claim

Not quite something to brag about. 😬

Yes it's fair. Life on benefits isn't wonderful!
What is your alternative? A society where we don't support people who need it?
You may be in a position when you need help from the state. All of us be in that position.
You are lucky you have a home, mortgage and s job many people can't afford to get onto the market and live in a constant state of insecurity and fear they may lose their home
. Think about what you have rather than what others do.

This. And rent a house.

The benefits system is ridiculous. Especially that lots of people people work
part time “to spend more time with their children”, get their wages topped up by the UC and get free childcare hours too, whereas “high” earners who pay for all of that party, cannot afford to go part time to spend more time with their children (and very often their jobs don’t allow for that anyway).

basically the system encourages working less and being paid less and discourages earning more.

which is pretty bad because if the high earners will manage to reduce their hours and go part time there will be much less tax money available for UC, child benefit, and all other government expenses.

the same system also encourages for example GP and doctors and dentists to go part time, making worse the current NHS crisis

completely unsustainable

Someone getting 60k in benefits would have extenuating circumstances in some extreme. That suggests higher rental and other factors such as disability for themselves and/or others in their home. That isn’t a typical amount of benefits by a long shot and I’d imagine that even with money coming in that their circumstances wouldn’t be the easiest.

Have you ever actually been on a low income or lost your job and had to rely on UC?

@SpeedyDrama I thought the same, however if you see here, it can add up to quite a lot with the various components cpag.org.uk/welfare-rights/key-topics/universal-credit/universal-credit-basics

If you or your partner earn over £793 a month, the benefit cap doesn't apply. On the previous table I linked to, some people can earn £84k a year before UC stops altogether. I live in the south east so know there will be some high rent costs in there, but this just seems a huge amount to me and not really fair

I work part time around the kids and on UC. We aren't entitled to free childcare. You do realise how low the threshold of entitlement is don't you?

Why can't you aim for a 2 year age gap? Either take the 2 year old out of nursery while you are on mat leave or use a funded place for reduced nursery hours? Aged 3 they would be entitled to mostly funded hours while you return to work and pay for the 1 year old's nursery with your tax free childcare?

Would you prefer to swap place with your in-law's? All sorts of people have all sorts of different situations, some of which seem unfair. Plot your own course through life without making comparisons to those who you perceive to have it better than you in some small part.

She's a stay at home mum, which you could be if you wanted to

@Flopsythebunny I think what the OP is asking is whether it's morally fair for some people to decide to stay home and live on UC, when others have to go to work and miss out on spending that time with their children. To pay the tax to enable some to choose to stay at home. And the numbers of people on UC are a large %

Rishi's team busy starting another benefits thread. Stop falling for it people.

Nothing like working the system🙄