Auriol Grey's manslaughter sentence overturned for killing cyclist. Correct decision?

[Locutus2000]

Reported in multiple outlets - BBC.

Mixed feelings - it was a complex case with no winners on any side.

Not town planners fault, it's the idiot who picked a fight, killed the cyclist then walked off. Although I'd agree, I wouldn't cycle there, I'd dismount.

You are diagnosed. You don't have learning difficulties. You therefore have insight.

But this Auriol is criminally responsible, so her learning difficulties are not to such an extent that it matters other than in mitigation during sentencing...?

But I don't think AG caused the cyclist's death.

Scary.

Clearly intelligent enough to lie through her teeth.

Yep, she pushed herself into the road, you've cracked the case.

I missed that. Is your friend violent or is the rage verbal? I'd understand if the pedestrian moved out of the way then shouted at the cyclist after they passed. I think the act of violence is her being a nasty aggressive person who is also autistic. Not forcing someone off a path into traffic is also a rule most people would follow.

If the bicycle lane was separated, as it mostly is in the Netherlands, they would not have had to vie for the same space. The Dutch put an enormous cycling infrastructure in place after people protested because there were so many traffic fatalities. It is truly the most inclusive thing I’ve ever seen. It’s from cradle to grave. You get people with adapted wheelchairs who use the cycle lanes, and can detach the motor part and park it at their destination like other bike users. You get parents who have bicycles with some sort of adapted buggy attached. They park the bike and clip the buggy and shop as normal. Tricycles, two seaters (side by side) as well as tandem. You see people with disabilities beside what I presume are parents/carers. Nurseries have those ‘bucket’ bicycles where there is seating up front for around 6 kids. A couple of these will bring the kids to parks etc. for fresh air. No cars/buses needed. These people are all independent from their front door to their destination. On a safe ‘fietspad’ or bicycle path. Separate from pedestrian footpath and road. Where traffic is shared, bikes get priority. I see the word ‘inclusive’ being bandied about and misrepresented so often. This is the one thing I’ve ever witnessed where I’ve been moved about how truly inclusive it is.

Councils the world over visit the Netherlands to see how they move traffic about.

They wouldn’t have been on the same space with good infrastructure. I can’t find the physical contact of a push on the BBC video. I can’t see it.

So if she's unable to have insight into the fact that pushing someone in front of a moving car is going to injure/kill them, where should she be?

No, the cyclist lost control of her bike. That's not to say AG's actions were not a contributing factor to this loss of control, and to what degree is debatable, but that's not the same as causality.

That is the million dollar question. Who manages it? I don't know. Adults that get diagnoses with autism don't suddenly get support when ASD hits their notes.
They get told that they managed or "masked" or their lives so they don't need help or support.
People in their 40s and 50s now.. they didn't have the SEN support stuff in school. They just got on with it all. And now, as adults, they struggle.

I said I have a friend with ASD who had been in court for public outbursts. They have been subject to a Mental Health Treatment Requirement. From what I gather, they are a very new scheme.

So, I do wonder what Auriol will be offered... as I simply can't imagine she was just let out of prison with a polite goodbye and fuck all else. That would be letting her down.

My impression of viewing the video is that AG waves/gestures 2-3 times her arm moves out before the cyclist is visible as being close to her, so AG was aware the cyclist was approaching and if she felt scared why didn't she move closer to the railing? Instead she looks to not move from her path at all. The cyclist isn't moving fast compared to AG's walking pace so wasn't speeding towards her, she was using the path appropriately.

Yes as a cyclist I would be on the road if I was cycling fast and the road is appropriate, or if I was on the path I'd slow/stop for pedestrians.

I cycle to work (on the road/cycle section of the road), but when I have my young toddler on the back I don't feel safe on the road due to drivers who overtake too close, but also on the path I would cycle very slowly to make sure I'm not a threat to pedestrians, but also this worries me now so I walk pushing her on the bike until nursery drop off, then get on and cycle

if the bicycle lane was separated, as it mostly is in the Netherlands, they would not have had to vie for the same space
They didn't the footage shows AG crossing into CW space, then pushing her from what I recall.

Sadly very few places do it as well the the Netherlands.

If this were a 19 year old ski mask wearing black boy the responses would absolutely not be calling for him to be compensated

Instead this utter fucking menace who’s caused the death of one person and ruined the life of the other gets out of prison after a year, despite being known for aggressive behaviour to cyclists, and is victimised. Unbelievable

It’s an outrageous decision that AG is walking the streets again.

I really hope her time in prison truly broke her and she lives out the rest of her existence in misery.

Shes a truly vile excuse for a human being and belongs in a cell.

I hope the victims family have found some peace.

I do wonder what Auriol will be offered... as I simply can't imagine she was just let out of prison with a polite goodbye and fuck all else. That would be letting her down.
letting her down?
Seriously? Hopefully she'll get the same probation supervision as other people who have caused someone's death.

I don't believe she pushed her into the path of a moving car. I saw her flailing her arms around whilst swearing . I didn't see her grab the woman and push her. I saw the bike swerve and the lady fall.

If it had been demonstrated that she pushed Celia, a base assault would have taken place and the manslaughter charge would have been justified. 3 judges - who presumably have had access to more stills, and the full video, than you or me, agreed on this.

and the fact that when asked how she ended up in the road, auriol grey admitted to making contact with her as she passed her means nothing?

It’s funny, though, how the cyclist seemed to be in perfectly in control of her bike up until the point she had almost completely passed Auriol, only to suddenly and dramatically lose control at the same moment that Auriol turned towards the cyclist and raised her hand towards her (either making contact or coming close to doing so).

What are the odds!

Mostly verbal.. but they were up in court recently for throwing leaflets at someone. Which was classed as assault.

I think @AutismProf answers this one.

All these posters justifying their hatred of cyclists by claiming how dangerous they are are completely ignoring all the data on the percentage of cyclists who cause significant injury or death vs the number of car drivers. Cyclists are far more vulnerable than they are dangerous. And as for being lawless and supposedly getting away with everything, maybe you missed the many cases where vehicles hit cyclists and suffered zero consequences. Even when it was proven that the driver was negligent and it resulted in the death of a young woman - https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-63474122.amp

Are there irresponsible cyclists? Of course. There are also terrible drivers, and cars have a lot more capacity to cause harm through their actions than a bike. Even just lack of consideration from a driver can be dangerous, the number of times I've had to go into the road on crutches because a car has parked across the pavement, or the time an aggressive driver threatened to run me over because I was standing in the loading bay he wanted to illegally park in, which had been taken over as a temporary bus stop, or when there's a queue of 4x4s blocking the road because they can't possibly walk their child up the street for the school run.

If you're defending the actions of an aggressive woman who was directly responsible for Celia Ward's death, and who then walked away and lied to the police, based on an irrational hatred of cyclists then shame on you. There is nothing to support the argument that Auriol Grey was afraid or in danger from Celia's actions - she walked into Celia's path!

That is what I meant, sorry.
Probation involvement, maybe community service, a fine, a MHTR.

Because the victim was elderly nobody gives a fuck.

Could you imagine the outcry if this has been a young black male. The victim would have been martyred and the mob would have wanted his head.