Page 25 | to ask your thoughts on this? Fatal shooting during burglary

itsjustataste · 2024-05-03T22:34:02+00:00

Happened near me very recently and our community seems very torn with lots of people slinging insults at both sides. Lots of people shouting about playing stupid games, win stupid prizes etc... whilst others calling the shooter a murderer. I find it very sad that someone so young has ultimately lost their life and has got mixed up in this sort of thing. BUT that being said, I don't have any ill feeling toward the farmer either and cannot say that I wouldn't do the same if faced with 3 people breaking into my home, especially if I had my children in the house. The other 2 suspects arrested for aggravated burglary meaning a weapon was involved and there had been a break in at the same home the night previously too. [[https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-68942085.amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-68942085.amp]]

OneTC · 04/05/2024 13:47

Voerendaal · 04/05/2024 13:21

Yes it needs to be left as no one actually has any idea of the land we have in the Peak District. Chatsworth is not in the Peak District.

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wut?

Letsgotitans · 04/05/2024 13:47

RawBloomers · 04/05/2024 10:18

We don’t know that they took weapons with them. They’ve been arrested for aggravated burglary, but the farmer’s been arrested for murder. Doesn’t mean they actually did exactly what they’ve been arrested for. The farmer, for instance, may have thought in the darkness and fear of a burglary, that they had something with them when they didn’t.

But assuming they did take a weapon - that could be a firearm that they brandished towards him, but it could also be a pen knife tucked away in a pocket, or a crowbar or screwdriver or something else that could be used as a weapon but might have primarily been about breaking into the property. Which doesn’t make it okay - obviously the presence of a weapon increases risk and preparation to use violence, even just to get away, makes them an even bigger danger than a criminal who doesn’t prepare for that. But it doesn’t mean it was necessarily a threat to the farmer at the time he shot them.

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Oh well occupational hazard of being a burglar I guess. Certainly a shame for the farmer having to go through all of this. I presume they did have weapons, surely all it would take is a quick check by the police to see if they had weapons on them.

allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld · 04/05/2024 13:50

@itsjustataste sorry but all my sympathy goes to the farmer and his family!! the family of the deceased and the other burglars perhaps should have taught them the laws of the land!! the farmer is not a murdered but the person who died is an out and out lawbreaker!! dont do the crime if you cant do the time comes to mind!

KimberleyClark · 04/05/2024 13:50

Gwenhwyfar · 04/05/2024 12:47

"Entering someone else’s property/land without consent should automatically mean you are breaking the law and the owner can protect as they see fit - including the use of firearms."

Entering someone's land?? Are you mad??? Someone mistaken about a public footpath and accidentally walking on someone's land should be shot??!!

Plenty of people thought Jean Charles de Menezes deserved to be shot because he’d overstayed his visa.

TERFCat · 04/05/2024 13:51

Gwenhwyfar · 04/05/2024 13:32

"His family & friends must know a 19yo armed burglar was a total loser and society is better without him"

This is not true. Plenty of people do stupid things when they're young and go on to live good lives later on.

How lovely that some of these criminals can go onto have nice lives.

If only it was that easy for the victims to move on, hey?

KimberleyClark · 04/05/2024 13:51

Unforgettablefire · 04/05/2024 12:46

Team farmer. Justice was served and anyone who breaks into a farm anyway would know there'd be guns in the property. So the fact the scum went armed themselves shows their intentions.

Summary execution is not and never is justice.

Willtheraineverstop · 04/05/2024 13:53

One less armed theif in the world 🤷‍♀️

You break into someone's house and threaten them with weapons, you deserve all you get back imo

KimberleyClark · 04/05/2024 13:53

Gwenhwyfar · 04/05/2024 12:46

" Most burglars do not want anything to do with violence and will run off if they find someone awake (as happened to me the time I was burgled while home). If, as a petite woman, you shot a fleeing burglar in the back, I don't think that would be reasonable, however big he was and whatever weapon he had (probably - though someone might come up with something that would change my mind on that)."

It's exactly. Most of them are a threat to your belongings, not to you.

Yes this. We have also been burgled while we were asleep upstairs.

Mrgrinlingscat · 04/05/2024 13:54

I live not far from a rural burglary where the thieves stole a quad bike. Luckily for the owner police did attend and the quad bike was recovered. Unfortunately that was the incident where Andrew Harper lost his life in the line of duty. He wasn’t shot by the burglars but their actions resulted in his death. The affect on the surrounding community due to the choices those young men decided to take that night are still being felt today.

tennesseewhiskey1 · 04/05/2024 13:55

Zero sympathy for the burglar who lost his life. I would 100% do the same.

WhenTheRedRedRobinComesBobBobBobbingAlong · 04/05/2024 13:56

SnakesAndArrows · 04/05/2024 13:20

There are a number of posters who have not formed an opinion either way because there is not enough information. I haven’t seen a single anti-farmer post.

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3 armed burglars inside farmers property. 1 farmer. Not sure how much more information is needed 🤷‍♀️.
They shouldn’t have been there. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t have been shot. Simple.

GPTec1 · 04/05/2024 13:57

Mrgrinlingscat · 04/05/2024 13:54

I live not far from a rural burglary where the thieves stole a quad bike. Luckily for the owner police did attend and the quad bike was recovered. Unfortunately that was the incident where Andrew Harper lost his life in the line of duty. He wasn’t shot by the burglars but their actions resulted in his death. The affect on the surrounding community due to the choices those young men decided to take that night are still being felt today.

Yes when i remember Mr Harpers horrific murder (& imho it was murder, they fucking well knew what they doing) i very quickly lose any (tiny) amount of sympathy i might have had for the man who was shot dead.

mrsdineen2 · 04/05/2024 13:58

I'm firmly opposed to the death penalty, and could never take a life myself, but the anyone with an ounce of common sense has to conclude that this is an occupational hazard that comes with committing a crime of this nature.

WhenTheRedRedRobinComesBobBobBobbingAlong · 04/05/2024 13:59

Bookworm1111 · 04/05/2024 13:21

I'm not not on his side, but nor do I think it's black and white as the majority of posters do. I don't think he was wrong to defend himself or his property, but he must've realised that shooting the intruders and killing them would have consequences. I just don't believe you can escape unpunished for taking someone's life by gunning them down, regardless of the circumstances.

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You are assuming he intended to kill the burglar.
He may well have thought the burglars were going to kill him so shot first to protect himself, who knows.

They shouldn’t have been there should they. They wouldn’t have got shot then. It’s not difficult to understand 🙄.

Unforgettablefire · 04/05/2024 13:59

@KimberleyClark we all have our opinion on this.
They live by the sword let them die by it.

Bookworm1111 · 04/05/2024 14:04

WhenTheRedRedRobinComesBobBobBobbingAlong · 04/05/2024 13:59

You are assuming he intended to kill the burglar.
He may well have thought the burglars were going to kill him so shot first to protect himself, who knows.

They shouldn’t have been there should they. They wouldn’t have got shot then. It’s not difficult to understand 🙄.

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I'm not assuming intent at all. You've hit the nail on the head when you say who knows what actually went on. But I do believe that if you fire a shotgun at a person then you must know that a) you could hit them and b) if they are hit, they could die.

I'm not disagreeing at all that they shouldn't have been there either, I'm just saying you can't shoot someone and not expect consequences. Chances are he won't be charged with murder because the jury would have to be convinced on intent, but he may face manslaughter charges.

LordPercyPercy · 04/05/2024 14:07

Unfortunately that was the incident where Andrew Harper lost his life in the line of duty.

What those men did to Andrew Harper was utterly horrific. It was way, way worse than simply shooting him. The sentences were an absolute joke.

Mrgrinlingscat · 04/05/2024 14:11

LordPercyPercy · 04/05/2024 14:07

Unfortunately that was the incident where Andrew Harper lost his life in the line of duty.

What those men did to Andrew Harper was utterly horrific. It was way, way worse than simply shooting him. The sentences were an absolute joke.

Yes it was much much worse but the point I was trying to make was this was also the result of the actions 3 young men decided to take that night in taking something that didn’t belong to them.

ChickyBricky · 04/05/2024 14:13

Save your sadness for nice people, OP Life is complicated enough!

Benthany · 04/05/2024 14:19

In that moment when he fired the shot that farmer would have been thinking it's either them or us.

WhenTheRedRedRobinComesBobBobBobbingAlong · 04/05/2024 14:23

Bookworm1111 · 04/05/2024 14:04

I'm not assuming intent at all. You've hit the nail on the head when you say who knows what actually went on. But I do believe that if you fire a shotgun at a person then you must know that a) you could hit them and b) if they are hit, they could die.

I'm not disagreeing at all that they shouldn't have been there either, I'm just saying you can't shoot someone and not expect consequences. Chances are he won't be charged with murder because the jury would have to be convinced on intent, but he may face manslaughter charges.

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Yes, but when you have seconds to react, I’m not sure you’d have the time to stop and consider those things.

Obviously they have to investigate, but I hope it doesn’t go to court.

I have absolutely no sympathy for the burglar.

OneTC · 04/05/2024 14:24

mrsdineen2 · 04/05/2024 13:58

I'm firmly opposed to the death penalty, and could never take a life myself, but the anyone with an ounce of common sense has to conclude that this is an occupational hazard that comes with committing a crime of this nature.

And prison is a known occupational hazard of vigilantism

mrsdineen2 · 04/05/2024 14:27

OneTC · 04/05/2024 14:24

And prison is a known occupational hazard of vigilantism

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It is, but what's that got to do with immediate self-defence in the confines of your own house when confronted by armed robbers?

GPTec1 · 04/05/2024 14:27

Benthany · 04/05/2024 14:19

In that moment when he fired the shot that farmer would have been thinking it's either them or us.

How on earth do you know that? stop being so dramatic, you re not writing a book.

They could have all been legging it, screaming "Run! he's got a gun!!!"

notacooldad · 04/05/2024 14:28

I'm behind the farmer.
This is not a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
He was there with bad intentions.
I understand the lads family will be upset but the bigger picture is to look at the guys actions and intentions.