to ask your thoughts on this? Fatal shooting during burglary

[itsjustataste]

Happened near me very recently and our community seems very torn with lots of people slinging insults at both sides. Lots of people shouting about playing stupid games, win stupid prizes etc... whilst others calling the shooter a murderer.

I find it very sad that someone so young has ultimately lost their life and has got mixed up in this sort of thing.

BUT that being said, I don't have any ill feeling toward the farmer either and cannot say that I wouldn't do the same if faced with 3 people breaking into my home, especially if I had my children in the house.

The other 2 suspects arrested for aggravated burglary meaning a weapon was involved and there had been a break in at the same home the night previously too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-68942085.amp

Yeah I don’t get this, as a parent I would be grieving, upset, angry at the shooter but also deeply ashamed of the circumstances of my childs death and wondering how the fuck I raised a criminal.

According to the Guardian, the man arrested on suspicion of murder and attempted murder isn’t the farm owner. Which throws new light on the argument that he has a right to defend his property…

It really doesn’t. People who rent are allowed to own “property” as in expensive equipment, personal, sentimental item, “stuff” etc. If someone rents a house it’s not ok for them to have their car nicked out if the garage, or their tv stolen out of the sitting room, or their jewellery to be nicked from their bedside table. If someone told you that their engagement ring had been stolen from their house while they slept an appropriate response would not be “yeah, but it’s not really your property is it..I mean…you don’t actually own it, do you..?”

(agree with the pp that the report is the dead man was not the owner of the property so it’s a moot point)

Getting shot while committing armed home intrusion is the very definition of ‘fuck around and find out’. I take no pleasure in this young man’s death, but I also have very little sympathy.

Just donated to the fundraiser, the poor man must have been terrified and will also have to live with the horrible guilt of having taken a life (even in self-defence).

Police Bail, not really a "Bail" as such, just an appointment to come back for an update from the CPS.

Three young and strong men with weapons? Terrifying. I don’t blame the farmer.

This country is so.lawless that people will take the law into their own hands. I'm with the farmer on this one, no one has the right to enter someone else's property. I sleep with a carving knife under my bed and would happily use it if my family were in danger. We need more people like him, I hope he doesn't get charged but knowing British justice he probably will.

If a burgler broke into my home, I wouldn’t be waiting around to find out if he was armed or what his intentions might be. If he got past the dog, I’d be defending my kids to the death.

Women also have to consider that men (including teens) don’t have to be armed to do serious harm to us. We’re just as likely to be seen as an opportunity as a threat. Something the law doesn’t take into account with the reasonable force criteria.

Ironically @Bookworm1111 can't read!

As someone who comes from a farming family... I'm completely with the farmer here.
Plus, it doesn't take rocket science to work out that farmers probably all have guns (they don't ALL have guns, but most do).
Fair play to him I say. And as to the person who got killed.... Play stupid games... Get stupid prizes.

My apologies to that poster, I mis-read.

What would I have done? Obviously it's a high stress situation but I'd like to think I wouldn't have shot directly into a group of people, no matter what they were doing. Because shooting people means consequences in this country. He must've aimed at them though, because he killed one and seriously injured another.

Robbery, burglary- are very risky “careers”. It’s a choice, a risky choice. No doubt if they needed to they would have harmed the farmer.

Their criminal career is full of risk.

Arrest, prosecution and imprisonment is also costly and dangerous.
I do wonder what they 3 were planning to steal that would have been worth the risk.
The farmer was 100% correct to protect himself. They were close enough to him to get a fatal shot, there was risk to his life.
These boys should have chosen a different path if they didn’t want to get shot.

Grieving families especially where the death happened in circumstances like this just want someone to blame. I would do the same as the farmer if I felt my/my families life was under treat but I’m not surprised and have been through a similar witch-hunt in my family and it was just awful and ridiculous at the same time.
My cousin was witness to a murder which was a low level scuffle between siblings with tragic outcome (man pushed his brother away who was being a goody fucker, hit his head on the pavement and died almost instantly) . The family were obviously bereft but not wanting to accept the truth that one child was dead and the other responsible so they shifted their anger to my poor cousin and made his life a misery. His statement outlined an ongoing feud which could mean a murder charge rather than manslaughter and refused to change it. People were vile and did & said some really awful things and we all lost some good friends along the way as people took ‘sides’. Thankfully the brother did only get manslaughter and eventually things calmed but it was a real eye-opener and really bloody sad.

I have apologised – my tired brain did miss that!

Where does it say they were armed, and what were they armed with?

How are you concluding that if the farmer was close enough to shoot the burglars that this means there was a risk to the farmer’s life?

Officers were called to the property in Whaley Bridge, Derbyshire, at about 1.20am on Wednesday and found a teenager with fatal gunshot wounds. The force said he was not the owner of the property.

This paragraph? Because it reads to me as the teenager found shot was not the owner of the farm- There are 2 paragraphs between the mention of the man arrested for murder and “… he was not the owner of the property”, which doesn’t imply the two sentences are connected.

Absolutely. I could be raped or anything- it's a primal brain response to protect yourself and survive. If someone brings a weapon to my house I am going to assume they intend to use it and cause me harm so I would use whatever force necessary to get them to leave or be incapable of hurting me or my kids.

I dont want anyone to die but if someone is going to die, I'd rather it be them and they have to fully accept that is a risk you take when you commit an armed robbery. I dont see it as "sad", I see it as the logical natural and inevitable consequences of your actions. All our actions have consequences.

I'm with the farmer, if the scumbags hadn't have broken in they wouldn't have been shot. Really is as simple as that.

My brain really is fried this morning! You are absolutely correct, that refers to the teenager.

And it is the farmer – his son has already started a crowdfunder for financial support. Which Katie Hopkins is backing. 😶

"Where does it say they were armed, and what were they armed with?"

They were arrested on suspicion of aggravated burglary. That means weapons. And why does it matter what they were armed with?

Just donated to the fund raiser. Glad the farmer is getting so much support.

Because it would help the farmer. If they had guns too, it's more likely the CPS won't proceed with charges against him on the ground of self-defence and for it not being in the public interest to pursue a prosecution.

This:

"It's more severe than ordinary burglary because it means that some kind of firearm, imitation firearm, "weapon of offence" or explosive has been involved. A person can be found guilty of aggravated burglary if they commit burglary with an offensive weapon in their possession"

I thought it was me being dyslexic again! 😀

It's not brilliantly written, but my guess is the Guardian journalist added that to make it clear the dead man wasn't the farmer's son if he's a similar age.