To still use a car seat for my 10 year old?

[ExcitedButNervous0424]

My son has recently turned 10 and still uses a high backed booster.

When I mentioned this to my friend the other day, whose son is a few months younger than mine, she practically laughed and said she can’t believes I still put my 10 year old in a car seat.

My son is always asking why he still has to use one as apparently, to quote him: “none of my friends do” but it’s always been non-negotiable for me. I always thought he was exaggerating when he said that none of his friends use car seats anymore (not even backless boosters) but judging from my friend’s reaction its made me wonder whether my son is actually right.

My friend said to think about how much I must be embarrassing my son when he has to use a HBB when his friends don’t use anything, but surely car safety isn’t about just letting him do what his friends do?

What’s the norm? Because her reaction really surprised me.

My child's safety is way more important than any notion of being cool. Mine is 150cm and still in a HBB. It has side protection and head protection for the often times of falling asleep on a car journey.
Uncool? I'd take uncool over unsafe every time.

Mine stay on a booster until the seatbelt is no longer across their neck. I don't care about cool. Car safety is a non negotiable for me. DS was really cross about having to go into a backless booster in my new car when we couldn't find a high back one that allowed for his height (he's a giant) because it's easier to sleep on long journeys if his head is supported!

That said, we all choose the level of risk we are comfortable with. I don't make mine wear helmets ever, but they aren't allowed to scoot/cycle by roads or on wet tarmac unless they choose to wear one.

I understand they make the child higher which makes the seatbelt fit better, but apart from that it doesn’t really do much in terms of preventing injury to the child.

You say this, but this is absolutely huge and makes a big difference in preventing injury to the child. This is what I mean when I say parents don't generally understand what the job of a booster seat is. First of all, if you have proper lap belt position it will anchor the pelvis properly, which means that the person does not slide around, they stay where they are, which is the single most important job of a seatbelt. The main thing that you need to avoid is hitting your head on anything in the car, because (as you know, sadly) head injuries in a car accident tend to be very bad news.

Secondly, if the lap belt is too high, it tightens around the body around the tummy inread, so not only do you have the person restrained by a much more flexible body part so they are more likely to move further before stopping which is worse for injuries, the part of the body which takes the impact is the abdomen which is soft, squishy, full of important stuff and much more likely to get hurt than the pelvis. It puts strain on the spine and the internal organs. Children who have shorter legs than adults often do not sit straight up at the back of the vehicle seat because they would not be able to bend their knees and this is uncomfortable, so they slouch to fit correctly. is a bit exaggerated but shows the difference in restraint between a seatbelt and a booster cushion. Booster cushions have basically not changed in design since the 80s when they were introduced which, yes, it does mean they are primitive compared to a well designed modern HBB, but it also means that they do the job they were designed to do extremely well and you can't really improve on the original booster cushion design. This part of a booster seat is the same today as it was 50 years ago.

And then if your car has curtain airbags, bringing the child into the area of effect for these too. And improving comfort of the shoulder belt, which helps reduce practices like tucking the belt under a child's arm or behind their back, both of which are very bad but are quite commonly done when a child is taken out of a booster seat too early.

The side panels do not actually always do much and sometimes they are completely useless. A flimsy piece of plastic does not make much difference to an impact metal door. If your seat is designed well then it will have other layers such as polystyrene, EPS foam, memory foam, or blocks which act as a crumple zone or brace, but the sturdiness of the backrest is also important. The Britax campaign is a little misleading, because they are showing their own HBB which is designed extremely well and does a good job in supporting the upper body and keeping the shoulder belt in a better position. A lot of HBBs on the market do not do this very well. For example, this is Maxi Cosi Rodi, which was actually well rated at the time - this is a VERY old video, from 2002, but it's a good example and some cheaper HBBs are still designed like this. You can see the movement of the dummy is quite similar to the Britax booster cushion.

@ExcitedButNervous0424 a pre teen is a child a few years off being a teen. My toddler certainly isn't a pre teen 😅pre-teens are less than ten years away from potential driving and I certainly wouldn't have mine in a seat as you described but each to their own and sorry for any offence caused which I gathered from your rude tone and eye roll emoji.

I'll be getting my money's worth out of my kids car seats. They will only stop using them when they've grown to the extent that it's no longer safe for them to use the seat. I don't understand why, just because it's legal, people would stop their kids using car seats that will keep them safer in the car. It's the same for the move from rear facing to forward facing. My 5 year old wants to forward face, tough. She'll stop using her rear facing seat once she grows out of it. Her sister did so around the age of 7. Same for the high backed booster. My 8 year old will be in hers for several more years. Some of her taller friends are already riding without a car seat in the car and I don't get it. I think UK law should be changed too so it's much more evidence based.

I don’t understand your point then.

Are you suggesting that height only should be the determinant cut off?

Well done you.

I don't actually think this is true - I know the car seat group admins all say it but I don't understand where it comes from. An adult under 135cm is going to have an extremely poor belt fit in any car and is going to be more vulnerable to injury. Adults with dwarfism are advised to avoid travelling in front of an active airbag as it can injure them.

As several posters have said on this thread, seatbelts sometimes don't fit correctly even at 150cm+ up to about 160cm.

It's not a coincidence that a 9th centile adult man is 158cm (about 5'3") and 91st centile is 195cm (about 6'5") - seatbelts don't fit as well for anyone outside those parameters.

For comparison the women;s 9th-91st centile height range is 147-180cm (4'10" - 5'11"). About 60-70% of adult women overlap the majority male height range, so more than 1 in 3 are outside it.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-07-18/why-women-are-likelier-to-be-hurt-in-a-car-crash

What about the weight limit though.. every one I've had has a weight limit. Current one is 45kg and that's biggest I could find as my child is special needs and needs harness etc. Is it not a safety issue to put then in if too heavy?

It’s interesting that the UK has more lax car seat rules but still has almost the lowest child mortality in traffic accidents in Europe. Driving children aim the uk is very safe. I’m not arguing for not using all the best seats just observing that it’s already a very safe activity. It’s not where I would put campaigning effort if I was trying to reduce harm to children.

For a harness attached to the car seat, yes you must stick to the weight limit as it would be dangerous to overload.

Some special needs car seats have a harness which is just for postural support and doesn't have a weight limit. The adult seatbelt is the restraint in this case.

High back boosters approved to the older safety standard R44 could not be certified any higher than 36kg - this should be ignored as it's just a legislation issue.

High back boosters approved to the current safety standard R129 don't need to specify a weight limit, but some do. If you're using in conjunction with a crelling harness or similar, the specialist retailer you've bought from should be able to advise about weight limits.

Haven’t read the full thread.
HBB exist up to 150cm
my 143cm 10 year old is on a booster cushion because otherwise the seatbelt digs into his neck.

im perplexed by the amount of people suggesting he go without a seat tbh.
hes your son, do what you feel is best.

this thread has the same vibe as the people who forward face their toddlers ‘because their legs look cramped’ 🙄

are you on Facebook? A group called ‘car seat safety uk’ will put your mind at ease - he needs to be in a seat so well done you and ignore the rest!

There are some fully grown women that are only 150cm!!

But they’re over the age if 12 when they’re bones have harden. But to honest for most people, let’s face it mostly women, under 150 cm their seat belts probably aren’t fitted probably and aren’t keeping them safe. There is a book about how science and technology are all geared towards the male body which covers this issue.

It does seem unusual. My almost 7 year old is just in a booster now & many of their friends aren’t in a car seat at all. Is it actually law they be in one? Because all these parents are pretty sensible, reasonable people…

The harness he uses is just to stop him escaping!

It's not at all unreasonable for you to want to do what you think is right for your child, and nor is it unreasonable for your son to question why he's using on when his friends aren't. Answer his questions, give your reasons, and ask why he thinks other parents aren't also requiring their children to use a seat. Have a discussion with him. There will likely be other issues in future where your son will want to do things differently to how you want him to do them, so you may as well both get some negotiation practice in now ;-)

As to what's the norm, I have no idea. My n=1 experience is that my extremely tall for age kid still used a high back booster at 11, since it was more comfortable than having the seatbelt at the wrong height. Predicting from growth charts that my kids would reach 135cm before age 7, I'd purchased comfy high backed boosters rated for taller and heavier kids than most seats on the market, so that they could at least stay in them until the age an average height kid would reach 135cm, and hopefully longer, which they happily did.

Always worth reading @BertieBotts informative posts on this thread! My 9yo likes being in her HBB and I'll keep both DC in them for as long as they fit.

And if they are in a serious car accident they will be less protected by the seatbelt than a taller person. I’m not sure what your point is?

My DD aged 9 will be in hers until 150cm or 12 years old. The law in this country is 135cm but 150cm in other European countries.

UK car seat legislation is so lax compared to the rest of Europe, I was shocked recently when shopping for a new seat for my son (outgrown his infant carrier seat) at how low the standards are. I’m deciding which Swedish Tested rear facing seat to get, I was also shocked at how there are so many unsafe seats available in the UK- it’s appalling! I know it’s not what you asked, just shocked me recently. I would never forgive myself if something preventable happened in a car accident so I think my son will be in a car seat and booster for as long as I can, I know it’s hard when his friends don’t use them but I’d stick to my guns on this issue.

I joined a group on Facebook called Car Seat Safety Uk (I think that’s the name) and it was quite eye-opening for me!

The adults have mature musculature which I guess helps stabilise the head a bit. Cars and seatbelts and safety tests don't adequately represent the full range of adult body sizes and morphologies; some adults are just inherently less safe in cars than other adults. Unfortunately, you have to put up with cars that are mostly a bit less safe for you than they are for a more average-western-height adult. It's not very fair, is it?

I am with you, I kept both of mine now (almost) 13 and 10.5, in HBB until they outgrew them due to height/shoulders, we then went to normal booster. I was amazed at the amount of much smaller sized peers using nothing, my eldest was embarrassed but I explained the safety aspect and he got it.
The same for those letting children ride in the front seat, it's a strict no from me until they are large enough. My 10yo is tall, has been the tallest in his class for 3yrs, is broad shouldered too but no way is he in the front seat until he is nearer 12 and his skeleton is more robust.

My MIL decided that my daughter could stop using the HBB I had given her for her car a couple of weeks back ….. daughter is 9 and only 125cm, I was fuming as she hasn’t even asked me so I had to say she’s too small and also told my daughter that she needs to continue using it for her own safety. She is petite for her age at 125cm so she will remain using it until she meets the legal requirements. Her safety is more important than looking cool.

I'm shocked at the vote and some of the comments!!

@ExcitedButNervous0424 you are right to use one for safety and for complying with the law!!

I wouldn't give a fuck if anyone made fun of me or my child for it. At least my child would have a better chance of surviving a car crash, and that's what's most important here.

My eldest is still in a HBB, and she's a lot older than your son! She loves her seat. She'll likely be in it until she's 150cm, if she even makes it that tall (she's tiny!).

Car seat safety is one thing I'd never compromise on. Anyone taking the piss can seriously fuck off.