AIBU to hope that able bodied people will support disabled people against the tory attack on PIP?

[Blackcats7]

I have just been reading posts from many terrified disabled people on a facebook group I belong to.
People are afraid for their lives after the government's recent announcement to stop huge numbers of people with mental health issues qualifying for PIP anymore.
This attempt to scapegoat disabled people has a long history in the tory party and is popular with their traditional core but the attack on PIP is a new low.
Even those claiming PIP for other reasons think they will be the next target and that the tory aim is to pretty much eradicate any support for us with the half hearted usual disguise of "concentrating help on those who need it most" when they know they can't get away with saying what they actually are doing.
Disabled people have votes too (being housebound I thank goodness for postal votes) and I think this current tactic will have a big influence on how those votes are used but my question is how many able bodied people will take this attack on us into account when it comes to the election?
Should this nightmare come to pass there will be blood on government hands because I have no doubt people will die bearing in mind the targets are people with mental health problems and the tory propaganda that they are removing a right to benefit from those who feel a little bit depressed and anxious about life as most people will at some point or another is utter nonsense. Claiming PIP is extremely hard and requires a very high bar to succeed, especially for mental health. Popping to your gp for some anti depressants would not cut it.
So we need your support.
YABU we aren't that bothered or think the govenment is quite right to stop you scrounging bastards
YANBU this is disgusting ableism and we have your back

@LakieLady yes because there are so many people clamouring to get on to waiting lists now. Surely it isn’t surprising that with requests for autism assessments having increased fivefold since 2019, the waiting times will be longer? There are 170,000 people on the waiting lists. There’s only so much the NHS can reasonably do

If it were indeed so easy to just say you have eg autism or ADHD and get all the benefits, why on Earth would hundreds of thousands of people even bother to join the waiting list for assessment?
Or perhaps disability benefits are actually not that easy to get without evidence, and people are waiting on the list so they have the evidence they need to claim.

The more the govt bangs on about PIP, the more they bring it to the attention of people who are struggling with mobility and daily living, who then realise they too deserve help.

The simplest thing Govt could do is disincentivise the assessment companies from making erroneous decisions. Perhaps they could fine assessors 120% of their fee for each decision that is ultimately overturned.

Is there actually any hard evidence that employers are offering disabled people appropriate and accessible work, which they are refusing to do?

For the love of Brian, PIP IS NOT AN OUT-OF-WORK BENEFIT!
We all get it! The issue is that when it comes to MH issues, it is directly related to work or not work.

Everybody claims that it's not easy to get PIP for mental health. A person in a wheelchair or severe mobility issues can indeed work with some adaptations.

A person with very severe anxiety or depression, likely to take very strong and debilitating drugs are very unlikely to ever get a job until they get better. Any job demand a level of concentration that most sufferers of severe MH can't sustain for more than a few hours if not minutes at a random time.

So yes, it's important to focus on MH for many reasons:

• the reason above, ie. Most likely not to and be able to work.
• the quickest, significantly growing number of claimant's, currently 38%.
• the largest group affected is young people.
• every scientific research has evidenced that the longer anxiety and depression is left untreated, the harder it becomes to rehabilitate. It's not all about access services. There are so many self help support available via charity and online. It's about motivation, self-belief, an innate ability to push yourself against one's will, and trust that one can get better.
• as mentioned, for those who have managed to overcome the worse of a crisis, work is a very good mean to continue to progress to through recovery.

The review of PIP is not all about saving money.

You’ve totally missed the point. Spending money on other things is their CHOICE. I miss out on nice clothes, holidays, meals out etc etc etc to the tune of £500 BECAUSE I AM DISABLED. So, effectively, my work has less value to me than their work has to them. That is what is unfair.

Exactly they didn't cope but they were more than likely shamed or it was brushed under the carpet as oh that's just your father's "way" ! I don't think we need to rush back to that.

It might not be their choice. Their spouse might have moved ages away with their children so to collect them means a 6 hour round trip and £££ on fuel every weekend (I know a few in this position). They may have to use a launderette because they live in a tiny flat and have no space to dry laundry without causing damp (also know somebody in this position). And most people have to pay to travel to regular or routine hospital appointments (I do).

They did cope. How many elderly people did you know growing up who were shaking anxious wrecks? I didn’t know any. Trying to make out everything was probably hidden because you didn’t see it makes no sense. They were just tougher people, less introspective and not encouraged to lie in bed and dwell on feelings. With children and no generous welfare state, people were incredibly resilient.

Most people don't have regular hospital appointments. I know very few who do. And those that do have long-term health issues

Don't be obtuse of course they didn't cope. Older ex service men were told they had to be "proud" and "brave" any trauma they had was hidden . That doesn't equate to coping. I'm glad an we have a welfare state that is supposed to help and support people.

I'm under 25. I'm absolutely sure that most of my peers aren't attending regular hospital appointments. Demographics, the fact that I'm usually the youngest person in the waiting room by quite some way, and common sense tell you that.

They did cope. How many elderly people did you know growing up who were shaking anxious wrecks? I didn’t know any. Trying to make out everything was probably hidden because you didn’t see it makes no sense. They were just tougher people, less introspective and not encouraged to lie in bed and dwell on feelings. With children and no generous welfare state, people were incredibly resilient.

Except that some of the ones who couldn't cope committed suicide. Not exactly a preferable option.

It’s impossible for either of us to say. What I do know is that the elderly people I knew growing up, including my own grandparents, were some of the most well balanced and resilient people I’ve come across. You can try to spin a narrative here but the fact is the country cannot just be a life support system for those with mental illness, people don’t want to work just to pay taxes to support everyone apart from themselves.

When did I say I was talking about under 25s?

They did cope. They got on with things. If they’d all given in to their negative feelings then there wouldn’t have been a workforce and the country would’ve been anarchy. Thank god they had more resilience. We can’t just be a big life support system for the mentally unwell. We all have lives to lead.

You said "most people have to pay to travel to regular or routine hospital appointments". You didn't exclude the under 25s in that. I was pointing out that while more older people may have regular hospital appointments, very few younger people do.
And again, I can't drive or reliably use public transport. First is illegal for me, second is inaccessible. So not only do I spend way more time than anyone else my age (and probably within 50 years of me) at the hospital, I also have to pay premium rates to get there in a taxi. That's the point of why I spend my PIP on it, and why I need PIP.

And disabled people have lives to lead too, thank you very much.

And with your launderette example. Launderettes are indeed more expensive and more faff than having your own washing machine. My laundry facility at the moment is a launderette. Except I can't get to it, or carry my laundry to it, or lift it in and out of the machine. So I pay for a laundry service. Hence PIP.

They did cope. They got on with things. If they’d all given in to their negative feelings then there wouldn’t have been a workforce and the country would’ve been anarchy. Thank god they had more resilience. We can’t just be a big life support system for the mentally unwell. We all have lives to lead.

Just don't give in to your negative feelings, and acquire some more resilience from somewhere, or other. Who knew that it could be so easy. This information could save the Country ££££, if only people took it on board

I have regular doctors and hospital appointments for 3 different conditions. I don’t get PIP.

You're not "most people".
You also haven't said that you can't walk or drive to get to said appointments

Have you applied for it?

No, but starting to think I should. In addition to these conditions I also have diagnosed depression and anxiety which require more appointments and treatment. I don’t need it though, I work and earn a decent salary, we don’t need the extra money.

Meant to quote this!

Well, it is up to you if you wish to apply for it, or not. Whether you work, or not has no bearing on it. There have been lots of posters explaining that fact.

If you don't need it it's not worth the stress of applying. Long form detailing all the basic life things you can't do in humiliating detail, gathering together copies of all your supporting evidence from your doctors, sending it all off before the deadline (which is always shorter than it's supposed to be because DWP letters take weeks to appear). Then an assessment with someone asking leading questions trying to catch you out. Then probably a letter telling you you don't qualify on spurious grounds. Then a mandatory reconsideration request to write. Then another letter back telling you they haven't changed their mind. Then an appeal, and maybe even a tribunal.

To be clear though, I wasn't saying that everyone with regular medical appointments should get PIP; it was an example of how it might be used by someone like me who has increased travel costs to get to said appointments, as well as more appointments than the norm (in that it's not just one GP appointment every few years that I'm talking about needing money for)