AIBU to hope that able bodied people will support disabled people against the tory attack on PIP?

[Blackcats7]

I have just been reading posts from many terrified disabled people on a facebook group I belong to.
People are afraid for their lives after the government's recent announcement to stop huge numbers of people with mental health issues qualifying for PIP anymore.
This attempt to scapegoat disabled people has a long history in the tory party and is popular with their traditional core but the attack on PIP is a new low.
Even those claiming PIP for other reasons think they will be the next target and that the tory aim is to pretty much eradicate any support for us with the half hearted usual disguise of "concentrating help on those who need it most" when they know they can't get away with saying what they actually are doing.
Disabled people have votes too (being housebound I thank goodness for postal votes) and I think this current tactic will have a big influence on how those votes are used but my question is how many able bodied people will take this attack on us into account when it comes to the election?
Should this nightmare come to pass there will be blood on government hands because I have no doubt people will die bearing in mind the targets are people with mental health problems and the tory propaganda that they are removing a right to benefit from those who feel a little bit depressed and anxious about life as most people will at some point or another is utter nonsense. Claiming PIP is extremely hard and requires a very high bar to succeed, especially for mental health. Popping to your gp for some anti depressants would not cut it.
So we need your support.
YABU we aren't that bothered or think the govenment is quite right to stop you scrounging bastards
YANBU this is disgusting ableism and we have your back

I see some people have been swayed by Rishi's little chat about PIP. I think they might be forgetting this is the same person willing to sign off on wasting millions of pounds of our money on a batshit scheme to fail to send people tp Rwanda. He isn't looking for savings in the right places.

Agree, the extreme language and 'blood on hands' has flash backs to the covid shouting about how taking your child to the shops meant you wanted people to die, and your 3 yo would be fine alone at home or in the car.

Agree with all of this.

Means testing would run completely counter intuitive to what PIP is meant to be for.

It is not an income replacement benefit. It is to meet the extra costs that being disabled brings.

Example: working person with mobility difficulties who can't drive or use public transport uses PIP to pay for taxis to get to and from work.

Means test PIP and they would lose some or all of it. Result: working might no longer be viable due to transport costs.

So many people on MN complaing about disabled people getting PIP, but don't actually understand what is. They just swallow Tory rhetoric whole.

I agree with this. As usual, most people’s opinions are extreme and polarised.
One side saying everyone claiming PIP is doing so fraudulently and why should we pay
The other saying all PIP claimants are virtuous and whiter than white.

Nowhere have I read that either party plans on removing PIP from everyone that claims it. The vast majority of decent people think that our societies most vulnerable should have access to support that they need.
The Tories were specifically talking about the cohort of young people who are citing only anxiety and/or depression as a reason to claim PIP. These are both curable conditions (I’ve had both before anyone tells me I don’t understand what it’s like)

It’s a difficult one because I do know at least one person that gets pip that could definitely work at least part time and I know of others turned down that really should qualify. The system definitely needs an overhaul .

I know plenty who work and claim too because it's not an out of work benefit

I am absolutely sick of the hate towards disabled people that has infested MN since Monday. Sunak has emboldened a lot of people to express their ableism.

@MistressoftheDarkSide you have done sterling work combating the hate. Not sure I have the stomach for it now. I hope you are OK.

This is exactly what I meant in my post. People haven't got a clue what PIP is, but doesn't stop them having a pop with made up tales of scroungers.

for the hundreds time - pip has nothing to do with work/not work. it's not an out of work benefit. Why are people too thick to understand that? Some people on Pip work, some don't. It's not related. sigh

Claiming PIP is extremely hard and requires a very high bar to succeed, especially for mental health. Popping to your gp for some anti depressants would not cut it
The issue is that demonstrating mental needs relies much more on anecdotal accounts than physical health.

There is concern that there is a growing knowledge on what to say/do to tick the right boxes to 'evidence' one's needs. There are more and more specialised organisation that can offer 'expert' advice on how to fill the form to ensure the chances of getting the award of winning in tribunal. Some even offer to fill in the forms on behalf of the claimants.

Using the assessment appointment, which is time limited, to ascertain what is genuine and what is well rehearsed is growingly difficult.

It's like going for an interview and those who can afford to practice and even pay for the beat practicing tools to know how to best answer the questions more likely to get the job than those who just go in and talk about their experience and skills honestly.

38% of claims now being of a mental health nature needs serious consideration. So no, I won't systematically disagree with proposal for changes but will depends on what the changes entail.

I wouldn't get your hopes up based on the awful comments today to the poster who has listed her UC amount that she gets because she rents and has 2 disabled children. I cannot believe some of the replies to that thread.

I think this is a little dramatic. I haven’t seen any hatred at all. Just because people agree with an overhaul of the current system, does not mean we hate disabled people. On the contrary, I noticed in the link to the consultation that they want to make it easier for people with life long conditions to claim. It’s preposterous to put someone with, for example, Downs’ Syndrome through that process every few years to see if their circumstances have changed.
There are a great many number of people for whom life is very hard in this country. Some in work, and some aren’t. Everyone has their own individual story. These threads are full of people’s stories and some of them are heartbreaking. I have no wish to see people like that suffer! I do still support an overhaul of the system though.

This will be taken by many to be inflammatory but it isn't meant to be.

A long time ago I used to have a job that supported people with disabilities (mainly ASD and learning disabilities) in to work.

From what I have been told this is now impossible as why would a company (eg let's say a supermarket) take someone with a disability and need to make various reasonable adjustments when they can take a young, fit immigrant who will do the job instead?

This is not meant to be disparaging to either immigrants or disabled people, neither of whom this is at fault here.

But disabled people may need reasonable adjustments in work and companies just don't have the incentive to do so anymore as they have 'easier' labour on tap.

If companies had to make reasonable adjustments to fill roles and were incentivised to do so (which they used to be) it would be a lot easier for people to access work.

Having supported some pretty severely disabled people in to work in the past my belief is that most people can do some level of work (not all people and certainly not full time, and they still may need benefits as well). But the system needs to be there to support those people.

You don’t just tick a box. We had to send letters from professionals, meeting minutes, prescription copies, diagnosis reports….

PIP isn't even an out of work benefit.

So I don't see how they can say get people off pip and into work.

Off pip means your disability has been cured. (If only it was that easy)

Into work means reasonable adjustments have been made to allow you to work.

My ds works and receives pip. He has a degenerative neurological disorder.

This is what I was going to say but you got there first. I work full time despite final stage arthritis which hinders my mobility and causes immense pain and I only just make ends meet.
I do have sympathy for others but personally, I can't afford to pay more tax.

"Off pip means your disability has been cured. (If only it was that easy)"

No it just means you don't fit their criteria for it

But the government are saying get people into work and they won't have MH problems requiring pip.

It doesn't work like that.

My ds goes to work. That doesn't mean he doesn't have significant needs for his disability. It just means he is able to do the job he does.

YABU we aren't that bothered or think the govenment is quite right to stop you scrounging bastards
YANBU this is disgusting ableism and we have your back

Your poll choices are a bit extreme but on balance I lean more to YABU. I wouldn't say all people with genuine needs are "scrounging bastards" but certainly most people aren't that bothered about entitlement to benefits being tightened up.

The government are also wrongly claiming that pip is an out of work benefit

Pip is a also a working benefit I don't understand how you and others don't know that !

Numbers of actual claims for PIP have gone down since the last benefits revision. Data has been found to corroborate that
Except that's incorrect!
There were 4.7 million new claimants in 2022. 5.6 million new claimants in 2023. Increased every year since COVID.

So the person that "you know" might get PIP regardless of employment.

I think many people could work part time but that's not an option you either fit the criteria to work and must work full time or you don't work.
If you only work part time that will not make you enough to live on and the government will tell you to look for full time work.