AIBU to hope that able bodied people will support disabled people against the tory attack on PIP?

[Blackcats7]

I have just been reading posts from many terrified disabled people on a facebook group I belong to.
People are afraid for their lives after the government's recent announcement to stop huge numbers of people with mental health issues qualifying for PIP anymore.
This attempt to scapegoat disabled people has a long history in the tory party and is popular with their traditional core but the attack on PIP is a new low.
Even those claiming PIP for other reasons think they will be the next target and that the tory aim is to pretty much eradicate any support for us with the half hearted usual disguise of "concentrating help on those who need it most" when they know they can't get away with saying what they actually are doing.
Disabled people have votes too (being housebound I thank goodness for postal votes) and I think this current tactic will have a big influence on how those votes are used but my question is how many able bodied people will take this attack on us into account when it comes to the election?
Should this nightmare come to pass there will be blood on government hands because I have no doubt people will die bearing in mind the targets are people with mental health problems and the tory propaganda that they are removing a right to benefit from those who feel a little bit depressed and anxious about life as most people will at some point or another is utter nonsense. Claiming PIP is extremely hard and requires a very high bar to succeed, especially for mental health. Popping to your gp for some anti depressants would not cut it.
So we need your support.
YABU we aren't that bothered or think the govenment is quite right to stop you scrounging bastards
YANBU this is disgusting ableism and we have your back

Also aside form the mental illness she is currently struggling with chronic anxiety, medication side effects, ptsd, Auyism, adhd…

What job are you expecting her to do?

And others like her?

Exactly. WFH became the norm for many office based jobs that may suit some with challenges because of lockdown. Now this has been a bone of contention and people are being mandated back into offices. I suspect part of this is due to areas that had businesses catering to commuters such as catering etc going into rapid decline, not to mention eating into public transport revenue.

So you could see a voucher scheme working for your Dsd needs. Good for you. What about people who need to have the heating on for the majority of the time, or have to run electrical equipment constantly? How are vouchers going to work for everybody that has needs, due to being disabled? It sounds completely unworkable, save for a few people. So just because you would be happy with that, you do not understand why anybody else should have an issue with that proposal. Typical.

WishIMite, that is the most contradictory post on here, send your pip award back if you don't need it!

Not sure what you mean. A secure job as in a job advertised, that’s permanent. Obviously there are no guarantees that someone can’t lose the job due to not performing well or redundancies, failing company etc, but generally speaking jobs advertised on sites such as indeed will state whether the role is permanent, and what qualifications or experience is required for the role.

Well my dd has no experience. She’s been in and out of hospital and school since she was 14 due to being very unwell. She has zero experience, a shit medical history and shouldn’t be in work.

What job is she supposed to do?

Without knowing your daughter, I can’t say what job would fit in with what she would choose to do. With mental health issues, sometimes actually having a focus and leaving the home can be very beneficial. Obviously not in all cases. I’m not sure being home permanently, especially for a young person, is going to help their mental health. It must be very isolating.

916,000 job vacancies in the UK. 1.58 million people on unemployment benefit.
Do the math.

That is just people on benefits with work commitments. That does not include people who are in work but wanting a new job. That figure is 12.7 million (a swift Google came up with that).

Of those 916,000, many will be zero hour contracts, or part time.

If your daughter is that ill that it would be impossible for her to hold down a job, then you will have no need to worry. People genuinely unable to work, whatever their disability, are obviously not the people this change is aimed at.

So where do you expect her to go? She’s apparently not allowed to use her pip to go anywhere or do anything.

All cases are apparently going to be treated the same by the government soooo I’d be interested to hear what she is expected to do and who is going to take responsibility for her safety.

Well yes, of course but what I'm getting at is that there are few jobs like that at the lower end of the socio-economuc scale these days. Jobs where accommodation can be made / will be made for those with disabilities - I believe it's the whole reasonable adjustment thing.

There are numerous posts over the several threads on the subject of getting people with disabilities into work highlighting how hard it is for them.

Bearing in mind that most households require dual income to meet basic costs and often still need top ups and that employers will prefer "reliable" employees over people with disabilities (who are sometimes "unreliable" due to no fault of their own,) do you think it's remotely realistic to try and cut PIP down (which people who can work claim to support them doing so) under the current proposals?

And of that 1.58 million, there will still be a large proportion who will continue to remain on benefits following any changes. As far as I’m aware there’s not a blanket decision to send every single person currently on benefits out into the work place, but certainly a percentage of them.

That isnt what they’re saying. They are saying anybody will mental illness will no longer get PIP and be expected to work whilst having talking therapy. You can bet “ talking therapy” won’t be specialised, appropriate to need or done by experienced staff. If she had had what she needs we wouldn’t be in this mess . Where are they getting all these therapists from?Nearly everybody is on some kind of hideous waiting list.

That 1.58 million figure is people who are jobseekers. They are not on any sickness benefit (although some might be on PIP).
What is being proposed with them is that they will get no money if they have not found a job after 12 months.

I also bet it would be very time limited too. And the sort of stuff that IAPT services offer. Very limited in usefulness and time. And many people also fall in the gap of being "too risky" for IAPT, but not risky enough for more targeted therapy in secondary care.
Maybe they should get vouchers for Dignitas instead.

I used to suffer from agoraphobia, anxiety and depression and receive DLA so I understand the additional stress it causes people on a low fixed income when changes are mooted and folk discuss it with little regard for how it feels to be on that safety net that they are discussing moving/removing.

I did recover from those MH conditions.

I do think that money would be better spent not on the rejecting applications and appeals process or worrying about whether some disabled person somewhere might be getting a little bit too much (which would tend to act as a stimulus anyway as it's most likely spent in the local economy rather than stashed away in an offshore bank). Still keep the existing fraud folk who are able to investigate anyone who is gaming the system.

But the rest of the money I think needs to go into helping people recover from mental illness, with better treatment, community support and gentle (rather than pushy) help to support those getting better who are out of work into training, education or careers which build their competence and confidence and are suitable for any long lasting limitations they have. Not about compelling people who aren't ready or able, but supporting those who are (agency is so important for mental health) to do meaningful work.

An approach that genuinely helped people would not just ease human distress, it would also be financially worthwhile in terms of tax revenue and reduced benefits /NHS costs.

I think we need a humane system that supports people well and helps them recover. Not make their MH worse with great stress, mistrust and punitive threats to withdraw how they pay for the basics they need to live. But the answer is also not just giving folk payments for decades without actually helping them get well again where that is possible.

The solution most on here have is to do away with those pesky assessors and just hand out PIP to everyone who wants it.

I've got phobia this, myalgia that and pick up your cash but, of course, the UK state has a per capita GDP lower than Malta's and is skint.

This is why Labour's solution is to get most of these folk back to work.

They are singing from the same hymn sheet as the Tories and it's obvious why.

PIP is not an out of work benefit.
Many disabled people manage to work because they get PIP.

But this gets repeated all the time and yet many still think PIP is something the "workshy" claim, and that their neighbour claims it for a "bad back" but is up and down a ladder all day make alterations to their posh home, with their posh cars on the drive.. and that is if you actually see them at at home. They are usually chilling in the Maldives 4 times a year.

Nobody has said get rid of assessors. It needs to be assessed and already is. We’re simply saying the government saying everybody on pip because of MH must go to work is ludicrous. And labour definitely aren’t saying that so you can quit with your scaremongering. They’re saying it needs looking at. There is a difference.

The lack of understanding as regards MH by this government is part of the reason we’re in this mess and they’re bludgeoning on even further with yet another ludicrous scheme .

It’s not ‘’giving pip to anyone who wants it’’ Christ on a bike! It’s doing away with unqualified assessors who are in no way qualified to assess whether or not someone is disabled enough, and actually go by medical evidence only. Also telephone assessments are completely and utterly fucking useless. How on earth is some random person in a call centre who has never met someone in their lives in any position to report on their capabilities. Are you ok? Getting a proper medical evaluation would save money in the long run as it would prevent the enormous costs of tribunal appeals.

Seriously? 'They' don't give a fuck. People are convinced by the press and 'I know a neighbour who...' stories that half are lying shysters after a free car (it's not free, it costs a fucking fortune to lease, the only difference from standard leasing is that there's not the same sort of credit check)/house/benefits that are directly stealing from their pockets.

I've just been discharged from IAPT care as my condition is too complex for them, I've been referred to secondary care & the waiting list is 2-3 years. God help anyone who is actively suicidal.

interesting thread
does anybody have any idea how this would happen

how long is the consultation?
what happens to it if the general election is called and the torys loose?
if they win how long before changes can be made?

i have bipolar and physical disabilities (waiting for knee replacment)atheritis in both hands both knees and possible feet,blood disorder etc etc and yeah im concerned like many others but deal better when i have an idea/time with things happen so curious i guess

thank you

Yes, there would be little point in means tested PIP if they want more disabled to work. Means testing would possibly mean a cut to PIP, so the person would be better off out of work.

There’s a lot of scaremongering, but I don’t think that much will change.

Cuts to UC are an easier target.