AIBU to hope that able bodied people will support disabled people against the tory attack on PIP?

[Blackcats7]

I have just been reading posts from many terrified disabled people on a facebook group I belong to.
People are afraid for their lives after the government's recent announcement to stop huge numbers of people with mental health issues qualifying for PIP anymore.
This attempt to scapegoat disabled people has a long history in the tory party and is popular with their traditional core but the attack on PIP is a new low.
Even those claiming PIP for other reasons think they will be the next target and that the tory aim is to pretty much eradicate any support for us with the half hearted usual disguise of "concentrating help on those who need it most" when they know they can't get away with saying what they actually are doing.
Disabled people have votes too (being housebound I thank goodness for postal votes) and I think this current tactic will have a big influence on how those votes are used but my question is how many able bodied people will take this attack on us into account when it comes to the election?
Should this nightmare come to pass there will be blood on government hands because I have no doubt people will die bearing in mind the targets are people with mental health problems and the tory propaganda that they are removing a right to benefit from those who feel a little bit depressed and anxious about life as most people will at some point or another is utter nonsense. Claiming PIP is extremely hard and requires a very high bar to succeed, especially for mental health. Popping to your gp for some anti depressants would not cut it.
So we need your support.
YABU we aren't that bothered or think the govenment is quite right to stop you scrounging bastards
YANBU this is disgusting ableism and we have your back

It's nice that you think think, but I'm afraid you're being very naive. The DWP has in the past declared people who are in hospital dying "fit for work".

This, the dwp want everyone "in work" or not disabled enough/illenough/dying enough so they don't award benefits this is their aim with every applicant.

I’m not happy that too many people see benefits as a lifestyle.

Lazy and empty rhetoric, usually spouted by people with no experience of the benefits system. One person seeing benefits as a lifestyle is one too many; but the idea that there are millions is, in my view, utter bollocks.

Excellent points - the most baffling thing about today's election results isn't that the Tories have done badly, it's that anyone at all is still voting to be royally screwed by them.

It's a same DWP seem to be using I Daniel Blake as a training film.

@Bibnle636

I am sorry to hear about your daughter. I was an absolute mess in my teens and living in care for a while. I had depression and an eating disorder which hospitalised me on several occasions.

something that actually did help me was to work. I did a few weeks picking vegetables (big vegetables farm, we were a large group of people) and before someone helped me to get a job as an assistant in a care facility (maybe the latter needs some certification now, it didn’t when I was young).

For me (but that is my very personal experience) the feeling of being part of something and that people appreciated me, regardless of my issues was a big thing.

I later managed to get back into education and worked extra cleaning in a hotel. Again, I had a sense of belonging and I became very proud of doing my job well.

it may have been different if I had had a loving parent to fall back on. As I didn’t, my entire life was in free fall. Under my specific circumstances, the work actually helped improving my mental health a lot. I appreciate that everyone is different but I just wanted to share my own story.

Bibnle636, you are absolutely right, work helps a lot with mental health issues.

"Some mental health conditions"

Fixed that for you.

pussycat I am very aware that we all are different, but it helped me. My life was beyond chaotic and everything felt pointless.

the sense that I did something useful and that I was needed helped me more than I can say.

I remember a point in the care facility when one of the residents smiled at me. This was so long ago but I still remember that I was amazed that I had made someone’s life better. It kind of showed me that I had value as a person if that makes sense? It sounds like such a small thing but I felt so useless, I was so depressed and the days were blurred into each other. To suddenly have achieved something measurable every day was huge. And then to have made another persons life better was a gift.

I still like to make people smile in my work (asking about their loved ones, making a small, inoffensive joke). I never made the connection before but maybe this is why?

Some folk, and notice I do say some, with mental health issues definitely benefit from getting back 'out and about'. For some people voluntary work may be a route back into paid work (part or full time). It won't always be an easy journey, going from a safe(r) space, but, with the right support and encouragement and at the right time, it can actually be the key to getting some sense of normality again. The problem is that we currently lack the resources and support to allow the transition to happen, and to judge what is an appropriate time (if any) to start the process.

This thread is like banging my head against a brick wall.
"work helped my/ my dog's cousin's mental health so everyone with a mental illness is capable of work"
"people on PIP should be encouraged back to work"
For the love of Brian, PIP IS NOT AN OUT-OF-WORK BENEFIT!

I'm on PIP and currently studying full time. I'm about to list some ways I spend it, although I'm not sure why as I'm sure nobody's going to take any bloody notice. Maybe the variety of its uses will explain why vouchers or catalogues or one-off grants or bloody having to keep the receipts and claim it back (what money was I supposed to have to pay for stuff in the first place?!) will not work.

• Taxis to get to hospital appointments. Obviously more hospital appointments than healthy people, and I can't get the bus in the rush hour because there's no space for the wheelchair. And I currently live in the city centre, living rurally means no buses and I can't legally drive.
• Emergency fund for if my wheelchair breaks, I put a little in every month, so that I can pay for the repairs and the weeks of taxis to get to classes or to rent a wheelchair.
• Extra heating because I'm in bed a lot to study, can't go and work in the library.
• Laundry service. I need clean clothes.
• Cleaning is currently included in my rent, but as soon as it isn't, I'll have to pay extra.
• Expensive pre-prepared vegetables and fruit
• Ready meals or takeaways when I run out of meals to heat up prepared by family members
• Extra electricity to charge my wheelchair
• Every month there's something to manage my disabilities that needs to be bought or replaced. Compression socks, cushions, ear defenders, cooking aids, additional wheelchair bits, adaptive kettle, weighted blanket, adaptive coat and so on and so forth. "Adaptive" anything is always more expensive than the non-adaptive version.
• Mistakes I make with bills and subscriptions due to my disabilities.
• Private therapy for a long time

I'm sure there's loads of other stuff I've forgotten about. If I had to individually "justify" each purchase I would have an unmanageable amount of admin to do. I already spend a ridiculous amount of time each week on disability admin, and need help with that. Either I wouldn't have the things I need, or me and my family members wouldn't have a life due to spending all our time applying for grants and saving up receipts.
Some of that list includes things that non-disabled people consider to be luxuries, and therefore don't think I should be allowed to spend "taxpayers' money" on them. What these people don't seem to understand is that I'm disabled, so things like a cleaning or laundry service, takeaways, or taxis, are not luxuries but necessities. I need to have clean clothes and not live in squalor. I was a good cook and would love to be able to cook for myself. I'd love to be allowed to learn to drive - imagine the freedom! But I can't, and because the services I need are priced as luxuries, life is bloody expensive.

Oh, and I can't get a part time job on top of my studies, cos guess what, I'm too disabled to do both

You have just summed it up perfectly as far as I am concerned, why the voucher scheme will just not work in the main@CrocusSnowdrop . Just having to spend so much time on keeping receipts, and statements will be an admin nightmare for most people suffering from ill health. Where will people get the money from to pay for what they need, to be able to claim back, in the first place? Who on earth thinks up these ridiculous ideas. Is it not enough to be trying to cope with whatever illness, is ailing a person, without adding a more unnecessary load on top?

As Pp said the issue is many treat it as a final diagnosis, like now they’ve been diagnosed as having anxiety etc that’s it then; they’re written off and can never work again. Also the sheer numbers - 5 million people could all have very compelling stories but we cant have 5 million people out of work full stop.

Post WW2 I imagine half the population had some form of anxiety or major PTSD but it simply wasn’t an option for half the population to give up work for years and have therapy. I do wonder why they seemed to cope and we simply can’t.

Post WW2 I imagine half the population had some form of anxiety or major PTSD but it simply wasn’t an option for half the population to give up work for years and have therapy. I do wonder why they seemed to cope and we simply can’t.

Many people did not cope though, and suffered terribly. Grown men whimpering, and shaking after hearing an unexpected loud noise, hardly sounds like coping.

That isn’t happening now. You don’t get pip just for anxiety and hardly anybody is getting access to the therapy they need. Children and adults.

Yes but that was the minority. The vast majority of 80 and 90 somethings I knew growing up were actually quite calm, level headed, optimistic people. They certainly weren’t shaking wrecks. I think having no choice but to get on with things helped in all but the worst cases.

You do get PIP for anxiety, and the reason hardly anyone is getting therapy is because the waiting lists are astronomical now compared to even 10 years ago. They’re never going to meet the insane level of demand we have now, I don’t think it’s even possible

This. It's putting people with disabling health conditions in double jeopardy.

And at the same time, waiting lists for treatment and surgery are getting longer and longer, and community mental health services have been cut to the bone.

By far the most senseless part of PIP is the motability scheme imo. Being disabled in many cases, even though qualifying for the highest rate, doesn't mean you need a brand new (unadapted) car. It's a total unnecessary waste in lots of cases.

But it's also used for taxis for those who can't drive or use public transport (or who live somewhere where there is little or no public transport) or to pay for a carer to accompany them when they use public transport, if they can't do that alone.

Why should PIP be means tested??? I spend about £500 a month to be able to work. Why should my able bodied colleague have £500 more disposable income than me, just because they’re lucky enough to not be disabled?? Means testing PIP would just create a massive disincentive to work fur disabled people. Only someone with absolutely no understanding of the costs if disability would suggest such a thing.

They could be spending £500 on other things. It’s a bit like saying why should I have to pay expensive rent when some people inherited a house for free? Life is inherently unfair. Maybe they have additional costs you have no idea about.

And for some it's not just the money but the gateway to other things - bus pass, blue badge, railcard, carers tickets, carers allowance, motability vehicle tax discount, etc

Not inheriting a house isn't a protected characteristic though.
Either we believe as a society that it's a good idea to try and combat some of the inaccessibility inherent in our society by giving disabled people the means to circumvent some of it, or we don't.
If buses were every two minutes everywhere and had enough wheelchair spaces that I'd be almost guaranteed to get on the first one that came, I wouldn't need money for taxis.

The wait for EMDR for PTSD in my county appears to be in the region of 3 years, if not more. The wait for counselling is over 3 years. The wait for an autism assessment for adults is now over 2.5 years (god knows what it is for children, friend's son waited 6.5 years). There doesn't appear to be any CBT going on anywhere.

Meanwhile, funding for projects that support people with MH problems in the community has been cut to the point that the support they deliver no longer meets people's needs. The mental health drop ins are no longer drop ins, membership is now time limited and you have to commit to doing particular activities, so people are becoming more isolated and have a lot less contact with MH professionals.

Expecting people to get back to work, or to manage on less money, while simultaneously removing one of the things that helped their mental health to improve is beyond cruel.