Brother has swindled DM out of over £100k- desperate advice please

[Unicornfairysoap]

Sorry I’m posting in aibu for traffic.

this is long, you may remember such threads as brother Pretended to dying DF to be in the navy to get money, pretend to be in mi6, threatened me with a multi billion £ law suit for saying he doesn’t have a PhD (he literally doesn’t, so it’s a stupid lie)

well DF died a few years ago and it’s been just dm, she lives 2/3 hrs away from my, brother lives closer. She works part time (20hrs a week) and gets my dads old pension and hers, which I’ve totalled as around £3.5k per month (no mortgage just bills). She’s been frequently crying to me she’s not got any money, I thought she was having me on a bit, but I had suspicions brother had claws in. Well she was visiting yesterday and broke down from not being able to pay her bills, she just kept repeating she’s not earning enough now, which she clearly is. The bills were only a few hundred too and she’s not the type to ask for money. I got quite concerned, and I noticed constant phone calls and texts coming in from brother. Now he’s the type that doesn’t contact unless he needs or wants something.

she went to the loo, and I snooped. I know it’s a total break of trust but I was genuinely concerned. I saw a list she’d wrote to him when he was telling her she was dead to him because she couldn’t give him £4k at the drop of a hat. The list went from 2019-2022 (so not even the last 18 months) and it detailed how she’d given him £120k over that time. He’s been going on luxurious holidays in that time. In a legal dispute with his ex. But he’s taking her to the cleaners and im genuinely worried. I looks like pure coercive control and an abusive relationship.

thing is i can’t tell her I looked and saw what I saw. She won’t take kindly to me calling social services or the police to talk with her, it will likely push her further to him.

shes 73 and he’s taken probably £150k at least

@Unicornfairysoap There are two free things you can do to make sure you are alerted if he tries to do anything fraudulent with your Mum’s home.

Register for the property alert service
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/property-alert

Update your Mum’s Land Register to include your email address as one of the three contact addresses.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/updating-registered-owners-contact-address

@Unicornfairysoap sorry to hear this.

You could try https://wearehourglass.org/who-we-are? Charity specialising in supporting families to counter elder abuse.

I work for the government and they pay all security/vetting fees. He’s having your poor dm on.

I think the authorities would be interested as it’s financial abuse.

retail Won’t let you have someone call with their card and pay for you incase or finacipa
Abuse do people will listen

F

That’s so sad @ToRecordOnlyWater :( I’m so sorry that happened to them. I’m glad they had some loving family around them too. Hopefully you never have to see these people again.

Social worker here. You need to call Social services as this is possible financial abuse. Even if she has capacity they can help. With your mum, tell her Social services is coming as they need to check she is getting all the right benefits. That often gives us a foot in the door for a general chat about money. She might be scared, it will take time, working with her to put some boundaries in place. The money thar is hone is unlikely to ever be recovered. Hope it all works out.

I would make an immediate appointment with Citizens Advice who will be able to advise you.

security clearances are undertaken by the UK gov--the person being vetted does not pay or do anything

The problem with that is that if a person is deemed to have “Capacity” (ie is mentally competent) then Social Services won’t get involved.
Their standpoint is that the money belongs to the individual and as such the individual is allowed to dispose of assets as they wish, even if the decision is against their best interests. I know this because I worked with elderly people who were frequently financially abused by families and “friends” ☹️

All banks have a policy specifically for this reason. Although the person appears to be handing over money willfully, there is clear coercion here. In no world, is that amount of money 'normal' to simply give away. These things usually happen with the victim being elderly and the 'thief'/beneficiary/bully is usually a family member.

I would advise that you contact your mum's bank and evoke their 'banking protocol'. This is precisely designed to tackle this. What is happening is a crime. The bank will be very quick to look into it. They will stop mum paying out to anything other than bills and temporarily allow her to withdraw a (agreed with her) set amount of money per week/month, temporarily, and they will contact the police.

Just report your concern to the bank, ask that the fact that you reported is not disclosed (I don't believe that this is even necessary, but just for your own peace of mind) and they will take it from there, your mum will believe that it's actually the bank who have noticed foul play and taken action. Your name won't be anywhere and to be quite honest, mum will likely be relieved that the choice has been removed from her as she can then be shielded by that, not having to say 'no' to him etc.

If you get a job where clearance is required, generally the company pays once they have employed you. Not all projects need clearance or particularly high clearance so is generally something else to do.

It sounds like she’s already trying to tell you something is wrong, by telling you she’s upset about money. Maybe she wants you to ask her where the money is going?

my daughter and her boyfriend along with a ”friend” of theirs burgled my elderly unwell mother.

I called the police. Long story short, they were eventually arrested, but she only got a few things back, and then she died as the shock exacerbated her illnesses.

point is, there will be a bigger upset down the line if you don’t say something now.

What will happen when all the money has gone? There will be nothing left for her care when she needs it, and he won’t bother with her, so it will all fall on you.

I hope you can find a solution you and your mum are happy with.

cut him off.

Why are you not confronting your brother and threatening him with police and Ss?

If you are now helping your mum, do ask her if you could be her Power of attorney on a temporary basis only, thus giving some relief of anxiety to your mother. Mum could say it is being dealt with by you. Once brother realises he cannot get any money the POA can be rescinded.

Your brother is financially abusing your mother and exploiting, coercing her emotionally into giving him money. He is This mentally, emotionally and financially abusing your mother , she is vulnerable, your brother is putting her in debt. Legally coercion in relation of financial affairs is theft as she is being put under pressure in relation to giving him funds. She doesn’t ‘want’ to give him the money he by his behaviour is making her do so, by making it in her best interests to keep In this relationship with him which quite frankly is toxic.
there are several help articles on live look up Reporting financial abuse to the police , reporting financial abuse vulnerable adults U.K.
also examples of financial abuse in vulnerable adults.
the money advice plus site is also good as is age U.K. advice line 08006781692 or their web page .
read them with your mum and ask if any of that sounds familiar and why is she sending money to your brother but putting herself in debt , can she not see he is financially abusing her
you could talk to your brother and tell him the games up !

But in any event
Get onto the police asap all also your mothers banks vulnerability and fraud department , her has and electricity suppliers vulnerability depts also, tell them she is being coerced to send money to your brother at the expensive of her own bills and get confirmation of her debts also speak to citizens advice, before if you need more advice, but this needs to stop , if only to protect your mothers health. You may wish to speak to her GP.
please don’t leave it .

Wow I can't believe 3% of people think you are being unreasonable, same thing happend to my exs mum,her other daughter and sil took over £20000 off her via cash card,even taking money the same time her dad was dying,vile fucking scum,I hope she's a member of this group and reads this.

I really think you should contact the police over this,if this would have continued he would of made your mum sell her house without doubt.

I have experience of this so thought I should post. It’s very difficult as unless mum has lost capacity authorities can’t really act. It’s her choice and she will likely deny anything is going on from fear or embarrassment. I do sadly have to agree with others who have mentioned this may actually end up aiding your brother by isolating her further.

What you can do is get poa over your mums finances. A solicitor can help with this and explain to your mum which can be useful if she is unsure or doesn’t know about it. To avoid the embarrassment factor, you can say it is “to take the stress if the bills away”. That avoids anyone having to confront or accuse brother. The solicitor will be added benefit, so she knows it is all above board, she may well be very frightened by the awful breach of trust your brother has shown. Solicitors specialising in poa are very experienced in this area. Hopefully you mum won’t insist your brother is added as well but if she does, a solicitor can be added alongside to stop any monkey business.

You will then be able to set up online banking and pay the bills for here. Your brother will likely stop trying once you are involved but if he does attempt to get more money, he will need to go through you which allows you to stop him. Be aware he may attempt to get mum to get cash out thinking that’s less easy to notice. He will likely go on smear campaign to both your mum and others to try and get you out the picture. To help here try and limit useful information your brother is able to get as much as you can.

Poa will also mean you can access the bank statements as evidence of what has been happening. Keep a record of everything. Even if it doesn’t seem so important now, once she passes you have other options here aswell to use it as technically brother has been draining the estate.

You can also alert your mums bank that there is an issue, most banks now will put extra security in place and speak with mum re financial abuse.

Something to remember though, mum can take you off being poa at anytime, so your brother may attempt to find a reason to convince her to do this.

You are not alone and I know how very stressful this is. I had this happened not only to my parents but also to my grandparents. The laws need changing and tightening up frankly. Financial abuse of the elderly is way too easy at the moment.

This is not correct. Social services will get involved as often coercive controll cases are around people who have full capacity.

Also if she looses all her savings the council could have to fund her future care and will want to avoid this.
Social services will need to do a risk assessment before they say they will do nothing. Simply saying the person has capacity we won't do anything is really no longer acceptable.

You really do need to contact the police.

You also need to agree with her to get Power Of Attorney before he does. Maybe he already has done ?

If she is out of cash, he will need her to sell the house to keep funding his lies.

Tell her she must never sign anything he gives her. Give her the words to use if he asks her to sign anything. Eg, ‘my solicitor/financial advisor has told me I have to check with him before signing anything.’

This is a dire situation for her. She loves him as her son and therfore will eventually be brow beaten by him to sign the house over.
Ask her if that’s what she wants, with all the implications that go with it. Spell them out to her very clearly. She needs to know he is using her and won’t stop until she’s homeless and even then he won’t care.

If her answer is that no, it’s not what she wants, you really will have no option but to get official help for her.
Otherwise you will feel you have been complicit by not acting more decisively.

You know he will stop at nothing.
There is no other way but to expose him as a liar, cheat and fraudster, once and for all.

Absolutely. I understand they have a duty of care towards vulnerable customers and regarding financial abuse

I’m afraid I’d ask your mother outright & say I can only help & support you if I have all the facts about what’s happened to the money dad left you; if she doesn’t tell you then sadly you’ll have to suck it up; if she tells you then you can suggest that you support her to go to the police & report cohesive control; blackmail; fraud whatever it takes to nail the little shit to the wall.
i would also suggest you talk to your mum about making you lasting power of attorney & for you to take control of her finances so she’s not left to deal with this alone & it stops him getting anymore out of her; I would even go so far as getting a restraining order on him to stop him harassing her to drop any charges.
I'm guessing your parents owned their own home too; she will need to make sure her will dictates he doesn’t get any money from her estate if he hasn’t paid the money back to her in full. And that her estate will give you the amount he has “stolen” from her first then the surplus will be split equally making sure this is her wishes.

I know it's complex but is there anyway that you could persuade her to have an honest conversation with her bank. She wouldn't have to go in to too much detail. With her permission they could put restrictions on her account and spending. She could tell your brother that it was the banks doing and that they are doing an investigation because of the amount she has seemingly given away in a short period of time. You never know that might frighten him a bit. Also, you get POA before he does is definitely a priority. At the minute she is being vulnerable and admitting things to you so now is the time to tell her what might happen if he gets POA over her finances.

You must take action or you're complicit in his abuse Call safeguarding at your local social services It most probably is your brother abusing her financially and emotionally but what if it's somebody else as well as or instead of ? Your mother is asking for help give it to her even if she doesn't like it