To be terrified about PIP?

[BobbyBiscuits]

I've tried to blank all this out for ages, but today it hit me when the government basically are saying I'm going to (they want me to) have my PIP cut off?
My main illnesses are severe depressive disorder, general anxiety disorder and severe anorexia. I've severe PTSD symptoms and also think I may have ADHD but have not been able to get diagnosed due to phobia of MH services since I got sectioned.
I now have physical symptoms also and severe osteperosis which I put on my last forms. But had no assessment for several years.
I'm praying this is BS from the Tories and they can't do it anyway as they'll be kicked out.
Or could labour still continue this assault against disabled people?
It would halve my already tiny income, other half is from ESA, and they could kick me off that too even though I can't do anything!?

What do people think?

@Cherryon, I'm a bit confused by the statistics you shared. Reading the January 2024 PIP statistics from gov.uk, it states:
Latest Personal Independence Payment (PIP) statistics show that as at 31 January 2024 there were 3.3 million claimants entitled to PIP (caseload) in England and Wales, a 3 percent increase on the number as at 31 October 2023
Of these: 2 million claims are new and 1.3 million are DLA reassessments

The five most commonly recorded disabling conditions for claims under normal rules are:
Psychiatric disorder (38% of claims)
Musculoskeletal disease (general) (20% of claims)
Neurological disease (12% of claims)
Musculoskeletal disease (regional) (12% of claims)
Respiratory disease (4% of claims)

The graph further down also shows a significant growing trend of new claims since COVID.

@vivainsomnia

You think streamlining a service is a bad idea?

Preventing medics from taking the absolute piss to have their lifestyle??

Let me tell you something I see them on a weekly basis, doctors working 2 1/2 days a week, getting all their childcare subsidised through nhs too, pension covered… and they can do this because their hubby tops up nhs job with a tonne of private work. They may also have the wife listed as private secretary to reduce tax bill….

It isn’t fair, they have their medical degrees massively subsidised by contrast to other countries and then when qualified decide they’ll only work part time or focus on private work….

I honestly think if you are trained for work in the nhs that is where you should be working. And full time for a set period too.

It sickens me that I’m sitting on wait lists for 4 years. And then I see the people who should be working in the service treating it like a Saturday job so they can play more tennis.

@Unjustifiable, the more you write, the more you are showing your lack of understanding.

Do you know why you are waiting 4 years for treatment? Because the NHS has become such a stressful, thankless, demanding more and more whilst also taking more away that medics (and others) have left to work places where they get more for less demands.

There is now a very significant staff crisis that has no solutions because you can't force people to train and work in unrewarding careers.

So yes, let's make it even harder and less appealing from the start so that whilst the NHS continues to lose more expertise from long standing clinicians, we also fail to attract good quality new learners.

Sadly, such ignorance by the public only adds to the problem because they think they know it all and gives them a right to have their say to the staff that remains making their workload even more stressful.

@vivainsomnia

I understand and acknowledge that the NHS is a stressful work environment currently.

However, I also see day to day that people trained to work at higher levels in the service are more intent on having a cushy affluent lifestyle than being dedicated medical professionals.

It is all about less hours, range rovers, fancy holidays, big houses, second houses. Greed and entitlement and no dedication to vocation, in fact most say it is beyond hope, bound to be privatised soon, and they sit waiting on their pay day coming, avoiding spending their time there as much as possible.

I do think wages need to rise, but I also think there has to be some curtailment on the amount of private work conducted alongside and that realistic Uni fees should be charged if many are going to use their degrees for work in the private sector.

The point is that I do not disagree with child benefit - I believe in a state system. Likewise I don’t begrudge the 1.5 million pound cheque my husband wrote to cover my dads IHT bill.

The state is there to support the vulnerable and sadly my son is one of those.

However also we believe in supporting disability charities and recently wrote out £500 to a disability charity that helps us. I would hate to jace such a small mind that I begrudged a cinema trip. Oddly I gave cinema tickets for a Xmas present to a family I know who were once homeless and now on pip plus groceries and other luxuries for Xmas.

My adult son is entitled to pip as it is used as required for his needs. We more than cover our family costs in taxes and I have no dispute with child benefit or pip - just the hypocrites who complain about pip and then take child benefit and use it towards holidays!

I believe in a tax system and importantly so does my husband who will never vote for tax cuts. More than 50% of his salary is taxed at 45% - he is one of the state net contributors.

I don’t believe in a small state I believe in a state that looks after people like my son
. if I was selfish I would want tax cuts as it benefits us the most - far more then his pip but that’s not my belief.

The biggest cost to the NHS is the elderly with diabetes 2. Again I don’t knock people with that it’s hard to exercises and eat well when you are tired from work etc. More access to gyms and pools might help and also far higher on crisps and cakes etc - the amount of crisps sold is obscene.

Re depression - the ability to access support would be good - it’s impossible to access mental health.

Any reform has to be done in an understanding way to see what can be done to support people and not accusatory way.

As for my son - institutional type or care or care organised by the state is far more expensive than dolling out pip and direct payments. It’s more of an efficient use of money. If I was confronted with vouchers I just would not engage - he would be over to the council to organise all his care needs - anything organised by councils be it foster care or disability care is never never cheap. So his costings would rise. As a corporate body they can’t just keep him in a room and would have to organise activities to the theatre and to the cinema as you would do old people on a care home . So more money spent and no money saved.

I mean perhaps you could have a nazi like party and they got rid off them! I’m sorry I don’t know what you expect from reform .

His needs are genuinely, they are being managed more efficiently with pip and direct payments as opposed to council led care - where are the savings to be made? In the meantime the only person being exploited is me for £81 per week. ( on which I then pay tax as I have investments)

People don't get pip for being mildly depressed.

However, I also see day to day that people trained to work at higher levels in the service are more intent on having a cushy affluent lifestyle than being dedicated medical professionals
Can I ask in which capacity you get to experience this on a day to day capacity?

Because it is so massively removed from normal NHS life. Of course consultants will enjoy a nice lifestyle, no differently to many executive in the private sector at this level.

Consultants now also do extra clinics over the weekends and work hours much over their contract expect.

And then of course, the NHS is much more than just its specialised consultants...

No you don't get PIP for mild depression but nowadays, depression is rarely classified as mild and most sufferers describe it as severe regardless of the classification.

Ultimately, claiming PIP got depression and anxiety is not easy. Yet, 38% of PIP claims are now for psychiatric issues. That's with a population where 1 in four suffer from mental issues, when not all mental issues can be classified as psychiatric, so that's a large and growing cohort of people.

What is wrong with this country I can tell you. Next door to my parents lived a multimillionaire non dom. His wife and children were safe in this country using the roads and protection of the military etc . Despite millions and a ridiculous income he paid £25000 per annum tax. He said ‘why should I pay tax I don’t use the schools or hospitals’ at the time neither did we as both kids were in school and we had private healthcare. That’s what wrong- he could not see the cost of a safe state but knew it’s worth as he positioned his family here and used all it had to offer.

But people can argue over cinema excursions like blathering idio

It's to cover the extra cost of being disabled, not just to 'buy in care'
For instance, my autistic young adult 'child' cannot use public transport. It took two years for them to be able to be put in a taxi for short trips (eg, visiting auntie two miles away)

The extra cost of being disabled is complex and hard to measure. Eg, my husband has a heart condition so I have to put heating on, I'm a disabled adult caring for a disabled adult. If he's had a meltdown, or it's been a particularly exhausting day for me as a carer, what I might need is enough money to buy fish and chips because I have a sick husband whose exhausted from work (he shouldn't be working but has no choice ££) and can't help me, and two hungry kids. Caring for a family including a disabled person whilst being disabled takes a toll on mental health. Sometimes doing things the easy way stops me breaking down.

My Disabled adult 'child' has learning disabilities and a physical disability. Can't help breaking furniture, phones, ruining clothes. If they accidentally break my phone, would vouchers cover this? Nope.

Also, I don't think you understand how severe mental health conditions have to be to qualify for pip.
Also, the majority of people getting PIP for 'anxiety' have multiple severe mental health issues.

@vivainsomnia

Socially - both friends and Mums I know who are band 7 and above.

All my friends are science/medical background and we live in an area with several hospitals so come into contact with tonnes of NHS workers.

I am of course delighted their quality of life is so good and they don’t have to work full time, from a social point of view.

But as somebody who is an NHS patient it makes me feel queasy.

The lower bands don’t have the same opportunity to do private/locuming so for them it really can be terrible.

But for higher, it does look like a lot are paying lip service to the NHS, while floating off into part time positions/private work to maintain the affluent lifestyle they expected to have.

FYI am on several waitlists to see specialised consultants and require major surgery… so I am not really worried about a nurse or a podiatrist…. It is the band 7/8s behaviour that bothers me.

These reforms won’t happen anyway. The election is due soon, and the chances of the Tories getting a majority is vanishingly small.

What Labour may or may not do remains to be seen.🤷‍♀️

Please don't bring the Nazis into this! It's lazy and unhelpful.

You support the big state, many don't. We live in a democracy and ultimately you will have to hope that the majority of people will agree with you both now and when costs continue to escalate.

The idea that the government has to do anything just isn't true. Sure, if you were to walk away from your son tomorrow then the state would step in and provide the things you mention but I think it's a mistake to think this will definitely always be the case. There are plenty of countries that don't have anything like our welfare system in place and it is still a relatively new system in the UK when you look across the history of the country. Since it's introduction we have enjoyed decades of peace, prosperity and a relatively favourable demographic. Now though it is being put under unprecedented pressure and we really can't be certain what will happen in the future. Personally I don't really want to find out and would rather take measures now to make things more affordable and sustainable than to keep going as we are and hoping for the best.

nhs staff do not live a 'cushy affluent lifestyle'

What you've said doesn't even make sense. Why would someone who only cares about money refuse a promotion, with the higher pay that would entail?

Nursing, teaching, social work, working in care homes etc may or may not be a 'vocation'. It might just be a job you happen to enjoy, or not mind, or even just a job. Even if it's a "vocatiin' for a particular person, why does that mean they should live in poverty or not have nice things??

You say you believe the nhs will be scrapped / privatised soon. Do you support nhs privatisation?

The debt was created by Covid and numerous large companies benefited from various grants and payments and never paid them back. This is disgraceful especially when they might seek the company for say 2 billion. That was a Tory cock up and cock up like these is why we are in a mess eg giving contracts for PPE to mates so why not look there to reclaim money - we should name and shame every company that takes hefty dividends and kept furlough! The amount of money paid in interest now is eye watering. The eat out scheme was a farce and also the reduction in stamp duty to fuel the housing market. As for the cut in the tax rate which was a disaster .i threw a sponge at the tv o was so annoyed - although we were immediately 20,000 better off .

Sorry but I don’t want to live with the poor on the street homeless and no NHS and a lower tax rate. I don’t want riots. So if that makes me a socialist idealist so be it - although I think of myself as conservative with a small c.

Perhaps because they couldn't manage a full time job? So getting PIP allows them to work p/t and contribute to society, have dignity, and keep as active as they can? What's wrong with that?

@HazeyGazey

I am talking specifically about band 7-8 who are on 43k minimum for an NHS role, and very often top it up with private work, or reduce to part time to do mainly private work. Or who purposefully stay locuming in the NHS because they can earn even more.

People who drive £50,000 cars are not in poverty!!

My point is many of them are getting their degrees part funded by the NHS, but they then are not obligated to work within the service beyond training years - this is wrong.

I think it is going to have to be partially privatised at least, because the current system is unsustainable.

The consultants are making themselves unavailable to the NHS (years long wait), while being available instantly if you pay private. They are leading the way on this.

This is the point so many are missing. The system has changed from the state having to provide institutional care. The reason being that PIP and direct payments are the cheapest way of providing the care disabled people need. All this talk of vouchers, sessions at the pool and taxis only to be used under a set criteria would blatantly cost so much more than the current system.

I have similar on a daily basis having an obvious disability. I find ‘fuck off and mind your own business’ to be a very effective way of dealing with people like this.

How ridiculous! To expect you to divulge your personal medical details to justify yourself and to suggest DC can't go on a bus! But well done for making it on the bus! 😊

It's fine to be a socialist. You also have to recognise that not everyone shares your ideals and that turkeys don't generally vote for Christmas. You will notice that on threads like this there is more support around cutting CB, raising taxes etc as long as disability benefits are preserved. Go on threads about large families struggling with the CoL and you will see the opposite.

The great news is that you can donate that additional £20k you saved to the government to help fund the big state you so favour.

Agree. The main point that people are missing is that PIP and other disability benefits like child DLA and AA are only contributions toward the cost of disability and the assessments are meant to determine the level of disability, which in turn decides the level of award. The government knows this. And they know that if they go down the road they’re suggesting it will lay the true cost of disability bare for everyone to see and it will end up costing far more than it does now. I think part of this is that the Tories know they will be ousted at the next election and they’re bent on leaving a poison chalice for Labour to deal with because the green paper for consultation has been issued, so Labour will have no choice but to act on the results.

This is one of the effects of various government spokesmen denigrating the disabled - it gives people the impression they have the right to act as the disability police. I drive a motability car and behind the wheel I don’t look disabled. When I park up in disabled spaces and put the blue badge out I’ve had people banging on the window telling me the space is for the disabled and asking whose badge am I using !! One woman was actually standing by the open drivers’ door demanding to check the badge even as the top box was lowering my wheelchair into position outside the car !! As was said upthread in response to this poster - ‘fuck off and mind your own business’ usually sends the busybodies packing. I used to be polite and try to explain myself. Not any more - if they persist, shock tactics are the only way to go !!

I remember vouchers being talked about when pip was announced. But I understood it was a choice - you either were given cash or a voucher to buy the items you need. As someone who has had to save up for disability items, that does sound like a good idea in theory. But I think we should have the choice.

Depression is rarely classified as mild??
Is it? What evidence do you have for this claim?