To be terrified about PIP?

[BobbyBiscuits]

I've tried to blank all this out for ages, but today it hit me when the government basically are saying I'm going to (they want me to) have my PIP cut off?
My main illnesses are severe depressive disorder, general anxiety disorder and severe anorexia. I've severe PTSD symptoms and also think I may have ADHD but have not been able to get diagnosed due to phobia of MH services since I got sectioned.
I now have physical symptoms also and severe osteperosis which I put on my last forms. But had no assessment for several years.
I'm praying this is BS from the Tories and they can't do it anyway as they'll be kicked out.
Or could labour still continue this assault against disabled people?
It would halve my already tiny income, other half is from ESA, and they could kick me off that too even though I can't do anything!?

What do people think?

"Vouchers make sense.

Cash payments is barmy when you think about it."

Care to expand on why or are you another goady one.

I think they got it the wrong way round. Vouchers are barmy when you think about it.

"I think they got it the wrong way round. Vouchers are barmy when you think about it."

I bet they won't think they are a good idea when they end up getting them for child benefit or any other top up they get.

I use my PIP to pay for my gym membership. I need to use the facilities due to my disabilities and they also have a positive impact on my mental health. I could not access this at the council leisure centre for a number of reasons - it's not accessible by public transport, it's also too cold, too noisy and too crowded, it also doesn't have all the facilities I need.

I'm not being goady at all! The example you use of someone going into a psych hospital for 3 months etc could just as easily fit someone with short term depression as long term. The only difference could be that they may have recovered enough to not be considered disabled by their depression after 12 months and that would mean that they are never eligible for PIP.

You seem insistent that the period of time the depression lasts is more relevant than the severity. I am not being goady by disagreeing and pointing out that it really is the severity that will make the biggest impact during a period of depression. A very acute episode is very different than long term moderate depression and the needs of the person with the acute form are likely to be more expensive and urgent during this period (which can go on for months).

Well why not give us an easy example of your point of view?

However, I've never come across someone with acute depression coming into hospital for that length of time. It's usually a week or 2.

It happens all the time sadly! It was incredibly distressing to watch my lovely friend develop severe PND after the birth of her second child. She lost half her body weight, didn't leave the house for months and was incapable of caring for herself or her baby. She suffered intrusive thoughts and all aspects of her life were impacted. Social services were heavily involved and she needed to spend a lot of time in hospital but gradually things began to improve. The whole episode lasted less than a year but it very easily could have ended tragically and it had a catastrophic impact on her marriage and finances.

@Bumpitybumper

What exactly qualifies you to comment as you have done on this thread?

Are you disabled?
Have you cared for multiple disabled adult family members?
Have you got a disabled child?
Have you or your family and friends experienced depression and other mental illness?
Do you have post grad level qualification in a relevant field?
Have you worked as a carer?

I tick all of the boxes above and I can tell you the information I have presented is true and this is entirely why the government does not allow you to claim for PIP/DLA unless it is a long standing, more serious, issue.

No, I wouldn’t think that poster has experience of disability, in any way. She might know people that have broken their bones and incapacitated for a short period of time though. 🙄

@Bumpitybumper

Please go and look at the vast number of articles explaining the difference between situational and clinical depression.

People such as the poster on the other thread who are depressed and crying a few times in the week because their situation is shit will start to feel better when their situation improves - entirely within their control.

People who have serious clinical depression and other mental illness do not have control. If their situation improves it makes little difference.

The two are incomparable!

I think you’ve misunderstood the wording. Both the daily living and the mobility component can be awarded at either standard or enhanced level for purely physical or purely mental health problems, or a combination of both. I think the poster was making that distinction. And I agree with you - one of the reasons PIP is awarded is to help disabled people work, and many do. The mobility component of PIP is particularly relevant to this as the motability scheme can be accessed by those on the enhanced rated, which gives many the means to travel to work, which they may not have had previously.

If the PND was severe enough to affect her ability to carry out the activities assessed, and she was in receipt of second line NHS care, she may have been able to claim PIP. You don’t seem to understand the eligibility criteria.

@Bumpitybumper

People who are actually disabled need long term help and that is what PIP and DLA are for to enable them to have as normal a life as possible without being disadvantaged due to their disability.

Your friend’s mental health problems post birth were resolved within a year.

The governments position is as follows, you can apply for PIP if:-

• you’re 16 or over
• you have a long-term physical or mental health condition or disability
• you have difficulty doing certain everyday tasks or getting around
• you expect the difficulties to last for at least 12 months from when they started

Your friend’s issues were a short term problem and it is expected that most people with short term problems have some capacity to deal with them. If they become long term then you claim.

@Rosscameasdoody

Her problems were a short term issue so she wasn’t eligible to apply.

It is expected that people will have some savings or insurance to be able to cope in the event of disaster - ill health, redundancy, natural disaster and so on.

If the short term problem becomes long term and creates disability the government will step in.

I know the difference between situational and clinical depression. Im not sure how that's relevant to the discussion and don't agree with your assessment that situational depression is entirely in someone's control. It often develops as a result of a major life event e.g. someone dying, which can't be controlled by the sufferer. I have not read the thread you are referring to, but many people feel trapped in lives they are unhappy in and would argue that their situation is not entirely in their control.

The duration of situation depression is usually shorter than clinical depression, although it is not uncommon for someone with situational depression to go on to develop clinical depression so they are not necessarily two discreet groups of people.

There's a thread newly started about the able bodied getting behind the "disabled" on the matter of PIP. Can anyone find and post there the excellent data research done by a poster I'm ashamed to say I can't remember the name of because I think it's important to get it in before another bun fight ensues.

Apologies for being crap but I'm not the best at technology and also having a rough day xxx

I literally pasted this exact thing a few hours ago. I know the criteria! Someone was arguing with me that PIP covered short term conditions. I proved that it doesn't.

This may well be the current criteria for receiving PIP but it doesn't mean that it's right or should always be this way. The debate around need is whether a disabled person's need is fundamentally different than non disabled person's needs. So many posters can't comprehend that a non disabled person can have a comparable or greater need for state assistance than a disabled person. If my friend's condition had continued then she would have met the criteria for PIP and be classified as disabled. Her needs wouldn't have actually changed though, just the duration she was experiencing them.

We don't assess people's capacity to meet their own needs. As PIP isn't means tested it is totally possible that a wealthy disabled person can claim for support they could afford themselves whilst a bankrupt person with urgent needs that they can't fund themselves is unable to claim anything. Again it's another debate around PIP that will probably be looked at in time and like many benefits a move towards means testing may be made.

Noras, it's obvious that you are very worried about the situation and this is affecting you, but dramatising the situation is in no way going to help you or your son.

If your son doesn't get to do both sailing and 1-1 swimming to help with his self esteem, he is not going to end up committing crime.

Same if you buy frozen ready meals when you are too tired to cook rather than buying takeaways.

It is very true that the general public understanding of every day life for people with disabilities and their carers is lacking, but dramatisation of the situation is not helping in doing so.

I think a debate as to why we've now reached a 38% of PIP applications being for mental health issues is really key to understand and do something about it going forward.

Absolutely. The biggest reason will be the erosion of mental health services for children and adults alongside other NHS waiting lists. Would have thought sorting this would be far more beneficial than demonising the disabled.

Can anyone find and post there the excellent data research done by a poster I'm ashamed to say I can't remember the name of because I think it's important to get it in before another bun fight ensues
Except that data was questionable in it's accuracy. I posted very different statistics from the same source. Funnily enough, that poster or others ignored it...

@Fresh1ndia, this isn't true though. The BMA states:
Between 2016/17 and 2022/23, there has been a cash terms increase in total NHS spend on mental health of 28%, which in real terms represents a smaller 8% increase (2023/24 prices)
This issue is the significant increase in the demand in mental health services. We need to understand why.

I'm very sorry for your friend but good she got some support and great to hear she has recovered.

However, it is not true that people with acute depression are hospitalised all the time or for extended times. (I'm a dual trained nurse.)

Also you're example is not telling us how short-term and long term-depression have the same needs?

https://www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/Mentalhealthfundingreport2_0.pdf

That document confirms what I've said. Increase funding into MH. The issue is the severe problem with workforce and it not meeting the needs of the significant increase in demand.