To be terrified about PIP?

[BobbyBiscuits]

I've tried to blank all this out for ages, but today it hit me when the government basically are saying I'm going to (they want me to) have my PIP cut off?
My main illnesses are severe depressive disorder, general anxiety disorder and severe anorexia. I've severe PTSD symptoms and also think I may have ADHD but have not been able to get diagnosed due to phobia of MH services since I got sectioned.
I now have physical symptoms also and severe osteperosis which I put on my last forms. But had no assessment for several years.
I'm praying this is BS from the Tories and they can't do it anyway as they'll be kicked out.
Or could labour still continue this assault against disabled people?
It would halve my already tiny income, other half is from ESA, and they could kick me off that too even though I can't do anything!?

What do people think?

Unfortunately the green paper consultation document has been issued. Whoever is in government when the consultation ends will have to act on the conclusions. We can only hope that Labour will come up with something fairer and more compassionate. Personally I’m not holding my breath because when the changes to sickness benefits were announced a few weeks ago, Starmer was quoted as saying they didn’t go far enough.

I agree that the figures don’t add up, but the actual cost figures they’re giving are omitting that those still on DLA are already costed into the disability benefits system - on first glance it appears that they’re counted again once migrated to PIP.

I’ve reported this thread several times as well as some of the posts involved. The thread still stands as do some of the most awful ableist posts. It seems that on MN you can pretty much say what you like about the disabled with no fear of deletion.

That sounds quite worrying. I don't believe that Labour will be more draconian than the Conservatives have been, regarding disability benefits. I hope that I will not be disappointed.

Brilliant post

Then you should know better shouldn’t you ?

I think they will but they’ll reword it and people will see it in a different light as it’s Labour. If this doesn’t prove the welfare bill is unaffordable I don’t know what does. This is what happens when far too many people claim because ‘I’m just one person, blame the tories not me’

We will just have to wait, and see. Things should be a lot clearer once this deadwood Government is out, hopefully.

Know better about what exactly? Do you actually mean I should agree with you?

Or perhaps the posts and this thread aren't objectively ableist? The alternative is that you are accusing MN of being ableist because they haven't taken down the posts you were offended by. Is that what you're suggesting? I wonder if you think it's possible to have a debate around potentially controlling and reducing disability benefits without it being ableist?

@Unjustifiable, your 'experience' is therefore only anecdotal and sounds like the daily mail nonsense.

Driving £50k car, are you kidding! You know that the NHS offers hire purchase deals, so it's likely a high proportion of NHS staff driving these luxurious cars don't owe them?

Most consultants doing private do it IN ADDITION to their NHS contractual requirements.

You really really don't have any idea of how the NHS works. Please, don't use such ludicrous opinionsto build your views on the NHS as a whole and worse, dont try to convince others clueless that you have a good u understanding of it.

If he's had a meltdown, or it's been a particularly exhausting day for me as a carer, what I might need is enough money to buy fish and chips because I have a sick husband whose exhausted from work (he shouldn't be working but has no choice ££) and can't help me, and two hungry kids

This is an interesting example and I think one that illustrates well the current debate on PIP.

On one hand, the above seems perfectly justified and will indeed be to many who claim PIP.

On the other hand, you have the other thread on people working despite suffering from debilitating mental health issues.

It's comprehensible that a single working mum of 3 young kids under high pressure at work would debate that she too could benefit from additional money to get take aways to feed her family and help looking after her children in the evenings.

PIP is about meeting the extra costs that comes with the needs associated with disability. Some argue that non classified disabled can have similar needs too.

"It's comprehensible that a single working mum of 3 young kids under high pressure at work would debate that she too could benefit from additional money to get take aways to feed her family and help looking after her children in the evenings.

PIP is about meeting the extra costs that comes with the needs associated with disability. Some argue that non classified disabled can have similar needs too."

Parents already get child benefit?

Non classified disabled don't have the same needs on the slightest. Well done for showing you have no idea

@vivainsomnia

Please don’t be rude.

I am telling of what I am experiencing, that I have NHS professionals band 7/8 whom I know personally, telling me it is a matter of time until it is privatised, telling me they are doing the bare minimum because it isn’t worth it and they can get so much more working privately or on a locuming basis to keep the nice car/house/private school whatever else.

It is all about the money.

So my view is give them more money, but oblige them to contribute to the NHS for a sustained period in a full time capacity. Or make them pay what their full unsubsidised Uni fees would be or be fully private or whatever other deterrent can be put in place. To prevent so much of the nhs budget going on locums and to ensure the staff who are trained for the NHS in the U.K. stay in the U.K. and work full time.

Yes. I wish I had a pound for every time someone says they are going to reform benefits to lessen the cost.

Every time the tinkering makes it more costly.

I don’t think, for one minute, that Labour will pick this up. There’s a 12 week consultation period anyway. There won’t even be time for this latest wheeze, what with recess and election.

It's comprehensible that a single working mum of 3 young kids under high pressure at work would debate that she too could benefit from additional money to get take aways to feed her family and help looking after her children in the evenings.

How is that even comparable to someone for example would not be able to stand long enough to prepare a meal, and would be unable to peel, chop, move heavy pots/ pans due to a spinal disability, for instance?

Disabled parents can also claim Child Benefit alongside PIP so I don't see how that's relevant.

Of course people that aren't officially recognised as being disabled can have the same needs as the disabled at any given time. The reason behind the need may be different (e.g. the woman in the original example spending time to look after her disabled child whilst the other woman is working long hours to make ends meet) but ultimately the end result of not having enough time to cook for the family is the same and the 'need' for convenience is the same. The same as the examples I used of someone being unable to drive aged 85 and realistically unable to learn now. The reality is that they have to use the same transport modes as the disabled. If they had learnt to drive earlier then they might still be able to drive so they aren't disabled as such but the reality is that their needs are the same as disabled people through circumstance.

It's also important to remember that the definition of disability doesn't usually cover short term conditions such as broken limbs or a bout of depression that isn't long term. This can lead to a non disabled person experiencing the exact same symptoms as a disabled person for a period of time. It really isn't as binary as you suggest, especially for people with conditions that are erratic and who struggle to get recognition.

The tax cut was reversed after the Government realised what a mistake they made. My husband de facto volunteered and personally paid back £15,000 to the government for furlough as it was obscene to keep it - many people have not - so in essence he did voluntarily pay tax.

The example the poster was referring to was about a mother that didn't have time to cook for her family as she had to spend a long time meeting her son's needs. It got late and she didn't have time to cook so bought fish and chips. She was arguing this is an example of an additional cost that has arisen as a result of her son's disability.

The example you have used is completely different and an obviously inappropriate comparison.

But if her son wasn't disabled she'd have more time, no?

If you read my comment in context you would have seen I don't see anything wrong with that.

Wouldn't the single mother have more time if she had a partner who could share the parenting load? What about if she didn't have to work so many hours in stressful job to make ends meet? What if she was through no fault of her own, slower at doing her work than an average employee and therefore had to work additional hours to keep up (not due to a disability)? What if the single mother was reaching burn out and struggling to mentally cope with the amount of stress and pressure being placed on her?

My point is that there are loads of factors that are largely out of our control not related to disability that can add hardship to your life. if the end result is that both mothers are in exactly the same position at 7pm at night with hungry children and no time to cook for them then why does one receive additional support whilst the other one doesn't?

Here’s an example of additional expenses - DS was in and out of hospital sometime for 3 weeks at a time as a baby. I had a toddler and DH was working flat out. DS was pulling feeding tube out - almost killing himself - DLA would have been useful to pay for nursery fees for DD tone looked after. As it was pride stopped me claiming DLA we funded the nursery ourselves. I had to be in hospital to look after him as the nurses could not manage - he was quite intense as he needed a gravity feed etc

We have used pip/dla for things like English lessons as son as severe SLI and still can’t sequence sentences - also struggles to understand language/ literal interpretation. We have used it to pay for SALT costs - we have used it to pay for EHCP Ed Psychs as NHS reports are very brief. We have used a PT to do the exercises suggested by OT. We have used it for the additional cost of our wills - I’m a trained lawyer and could knock up my own standard will but purely due to my sons disability he needed specific advice re vulnerable persons trust. I have used it to buy gifts to say ‘thanks’ to people who have my son eg overnight when he is aged 15 onwards and most kids that age don’t need baby sitting. We have used it to buy extra clothes because he would eat his clothes ( he would chew on them and make holes). We have used it to buy soft chew toys and SEN toys like squidgies to hold onto and squeeze. We have used it to pay for a sims for a tracker to find him if he runs off ( reoccurring monthly payment) We use it to pay for additional PA expenses - before we had social care we used it to pay the actual cost of PA. In theory it covers our petrol cost to and from life skills college for meetings. At some point we have to replace the floor boards he broke from stimming or bouncing up and down on the floor.

and you know something - if he decides to be nocturnal and wakes me up at 3am I might get a cleaner in. This is not the same as someone with a baby as he is permanently like that and this is an ongoing type of hell of him deciding to wander around at 2am from time to time - babies and kids grow up. Disabled kids have this habit of needing support for life.

There have been lots of posts outlining why the additional help is needed for the person with disabilities. All those comments are still there to look over again, if need be.

That is the system for wheelchairs/mobility aids...

But you get a voucher where you opt for one, which is to the value of what THEY would have provided. Sometimes that option is not an option it is the only way, because they cannot supply what a person needs.

What they would have provided is based on the options they stock (rather than 'what actually exists out there in the world) so in my case there were two wheelchair options, neither actually suitable.

I got a voucher for the price they would have spent, remember that the NHS buy chairs at a significantly lower price than those same companies would sell to me.

So then I had to buy a chair that DID suit me, with a voucher for the value of a much much cheaper unsuitable chair.

So £400. Towards a £2500 chair.

I am not sure if things have changed since the invent of the Personal Wheelchair Budget, as my area doesn't do the PWB (and what is the point of these systems if various areas just opt out of them?!), I believe that was meant to help people fund equipment the NHS doesn't stock, but I never actually got a straight answer out of anyone about it.

This is the sort of issue we'd have with 'vouchers' for things - people would be given a voucher for £50 worth of therapy, because £50 is what the NHS would pay for X therapy, if they supplied it, which they don't. But out in the real world that therapy costs £250.

And you'd wait months/years to get it, if you got it at all.

It is unworkable, it would be hugely expensive to do and wholly impractical.

Since everyone seems to want to bang on about taxis instead of motability cars - for those who use a vehicle infrequently that might seem sensible.

I can't get a taxi in my small rural town - there are zero taxi companies that can take me in either of my wheelchairs.

So thats a small rural town issue then? Nope. My friend in a large northern city, cannot get a taxi either. There are zero companies with wheelchair accessible vehicles that take her chair (and hers is not some bizarrely oversized monster!), we're talking not enough head room or incorrect docking/tie down systems.

Even in places where there are wheelchair accessible vehicles, it is not the case that every company has multiple of these, they have one, if you're lucky. If that one is out doing a hen do run or taking a family of six to an airport, you are shit out of luck.

Taking away peoples choices and freedoms will cost someone more, I think in this case it will cost the government more AND it will cost the end user more!

No, there have been posts claiming that a need that arises as a result of a disability has to be different than the same need arising due to some other circumstance or situation also outside of someone's control. This isn't definitively true and it is much less black and white than people like to pretend.

As mentioned upthread, the exact same need resulting from the same condition may or may not qualify for PIP depending on how it manifests and how you fill in the forms. If it's deemed short term or you answer the questions from the perspective of an average day as opposed to a bad day then you can get a whole range of outcomes from the assessment.