To be terrified about PIP?

[BobbyBiscuits]

I've tried to blank all this out for ages, but today it hit me when the government basically are saying I'm going to (they want me to) have my PIP cut off?
My main illnesses are severe depressive disorder, general anxiety disorder and severe anorexia. I've severe PTSD symptoms and also think I may have ADHD but have not been able to get diagnosed due to phobia of MH services since I got sectioned.
I now have physical symptoms also and severe osteperosis which I put on my last forms. But had no assessment for several years.
I'm praying this is BS from the Tories and they can't do it anyway as they'll be kicked out.
Or could labour still continue this assault against disabled people?
It would halve my already tiny income, other half is from ESA, and they could kick me off that too even though I can't do anything!?

What do people think?

Yes thank you

Certain posters would appear to have egg on their face now.

Yes, please do it. I think it's a very important point!

@SummerBreeze1980

I know. It’s sad isn’t it.

Quality of life for us goes like this.

• able to access medical support (physio, counselling, OT, endless medical appointments)
• able to attend school/work/education
• able to buy equipment needed to follow OT/physio/medical recommendations
• able to attend classes or places (pool/gym) that are in line with OT/physio/recommendations
• able to have enough clean clothes to cope with accidents
• able to afford food relating to specialised diet
• able to afford aids/treatments to help with sleep/pain issues

I mean these aren’t luxurious things, these are basic life requirements.

Yes we do go to the cinema, theatre or have a family day out once or twice a month…but we are able to afford this because of schemes separate to DLA/PIP allowing a free carer ticket/reduced cost entry, and we really value the opportunity because life is very difficult the rest of the time… Anywhere offering a free carer ticket goes out of their way to make accommodations for disabled people… so it’s a very different experience to every day life.

We once had a fit and able taxi driver be aggressive to us because we were accessing a day out as a family with a disabled child… because he didn’t think it was fair he would have to pay full price for his family.

The cost of that ticket is living a life that is limited, reduced earning capacity, increased day to day living costs, discrimination, having to fight for access to appropriate educational and work support, and that’s before you get to the impact of the disability or health condition….. but still the perfectly fit and well cabby, with no limitations upon him or his family except those of his own making, resented the free ticket.

Thank you thank you thank you.

I've had a hell of a day and have just read the whole thread about working people being depressed too but just getting on with it. Was just about ready to open a vein tbh when I checked this one.

Please pop over there and post this if you don't start a new thread xxx

I know, the jealousy of disabled people's benefits and describing a pro of a disabled person using a taxi as 'don't have to drive' when they would love to drive it's just sickening to be honest.

@SummerBreeze1980

This week I was going to pick my child up via bus. It took a great effort, I was exhausted, stressed and feeling nauseous.

Someone sat beside me, usual chit chat, they remarked I should be driving if having the responsibility of picking a child up.

I (partially) explained, I have an arthritic issue (only one of them!), and would have difficulty with pedals…

“well you can get an automatic, if disabled people can manage to drive a car so can you”

I am disabled. The main reason I can’t drive is due to high dose painkillers. And I didn’t want to discuss this with a stranger on the bus and face more judgement.

It pisses me off that people are so judgemental and perceive the only valid disabled people to be wheelchair bound!

They need to be reported every time. I reported a post on this thread that got removed. Personally i don’t thing MN should be relying on posters to alert them to ableism but they do

This is just wilful misrepresentation now!

The actual reality of what has happened:

• You insist that I have written that disabled posters shouldn't be able to use taxis or that they should only be used for necessary medical appointments.
• I dispute this and ask you to provide evidence to substantiate your claims, not because I want you to be my secretary but because these are pretty weighty claims to band around without evidence.
• You find a quote that is a direct response to a post written by someone who uses taxis for medical appointments. I simply say that I support her use of taxis for this purpose. Neither the post I was responding to or my response mentioned using taxis for other purposes.
• You then claim you have proven your case in 'black and white'
• I point out that you have done no such thing
• You now claim it's all in the nuance (there is no nuance when the quote is silent on the matter you're accusing me of) and all about inference (specifically your own inference).

To top it all off you accuse me of gaslighting you!

@Bumpitybumper

Disabled people can use taxis to go wherever they choose, just like you might drive, walk or get the bus to wherever you choose.

The whole point of DLA/PIP is to level the playing field so disabled people are provided for and not pushed down into poverty in society, to meet their needs.

A taxi may be the only way they can get around. Predominantly they will be used for medical appointments or getting to school/college/Uni/work, but I fully support disabled people having the same liberty as everyone else.

PIP is max £800 but most get around the £300 mark.

Nobody is going to be spending £100 on single taxi rides or any such nonsense - there are so many other costs that need to be met. Taxis are a very small part of things.

Please stop focusing on this because it detracts from what is actually important in this thread - disabled people being attacked and vilified by the government, and potentially going into poverty with unmet needs.

If you've been diagnosed with a serious health condition, then yes, you may well use PIP as a means to drop a day at work, in order to make life easier, yet continue to work.

I've been off work for 6 months. Diagnosed with an aggressive sarcoma last November which requires a total hysterectomy , followed by secondary breast cancer.

The shock and treatment has been brutal! With the help of my PIP, I plan to return to work, but drop 2 days if can.

The government really love that people do this. They set one group up against another, with misinformation, because while people are tearing lumps out of each other, they are not looking so hard at government failures.🙄

They have given the impression that PIP is an “out of work benefit” which it isn’t and never has been.

ESA is the “out of work” sickness benefit.

Anyone receiving DLA/PIP/AA have been assessed by the professionals the government employed. Random people on the net cannot possibly know if someone should be getting it!🙄

This whole thing is a farce anyway - the government know they will be out of power soon, and wont be doing anything. This is just a spin bone they are throwing at people to try and get more votes, to avoid total wipe-out.

And their division tactics are working a treat, if this thread is anything to go by. That is why people should be very wary when the Government picks out groups of people to scapegoat (ie immigrants) because you never know when it will be your turn.

@Boomer55

Why people would vote for a government that seeks to give disabled people ‘vouchers’ rather than cash, and/or yet more paperwork via returning receipts and what not… I don’t know!

They need to be sorting out the root causes of the increased PIP/DLA bill - inflation, education, NHS.

And to take accountability for lockdowns that ruined adult and children’s mental health and many livelihoods!!

So angry that a billionaire has the audacity to stand up behind a podium giving off about disabled people having a few hundred a month.

They are fighting the wrong battle.

There are a variety of ways that pip can be used and it’s the flexibility that makes it work well.

Despite being as an unpaid carer ( except for £81 per week) I have to source the agency or PA to look after my son when I go away.

The job is badly paid but recruitment is easier if they do some fun trips with my son as well as doing cookery or playing chess or card games with him at home ( they do that as well) That involves a cost but their brief if for him to access the community - the community is outside the house. If they go shopping - there is a cost - he will purchase some items that he wants but have no need for most likely. If they go to a park - he gets the PA a coffee etc

Going out is the brief approved and required by our social services - as going out is the problem.

The success of this has been remarkable - usually my son would he huddled up at a SEN bowling group - now he rushes in to meet them. However if he does not do these things repeatedly it’s easily lost.

The contrast from how he was over Covid is huge. He had to have a suicide risk assessment at CAMHS as he was referred by his counsellor as he was deemed too high needs for that level and needed assessment. We were given the mental health team crisis numbers by the GP and self harm was a major issue. Over Covid he lost the ability to tolerate buses and took major steps back. So I gently get him back into them when not so busy but he still won’t tolerate and refuses crowded buses.

He had to have a suicide risk assessment but you begrudge him cinema trips you idiot.

The real cost of my son are MDT meetings when at one meeting there is a head master a SENCO a transition OT from the council a counsellor ( usually by letter) an Ed Psych a social worker etc etc - imagine the cost of all those people having to discuss where to put him and what to do with him next. Several people have to give up a day to preps for a whole morning meeting and also to be there. Pip is a tiny expenditure compared to the actual cost of his needs.

Social services know what they are doing and they known that having my as an unpaid carer, 15 hours of PA / agency care and a £35000 agency placement plus pip is cheaper than a full time supported living placement, the housing benefit costs and also almost full time PA cover to run everything. However you are too stupid to realise how much parents like me save the state and moan about pip and a cinema trip. It’s like complaining about a leaking tap when on the Titanic!

People moan about a cinema trip but m I am expected in my free time to train the Pa and also to do all their administration for free. So you are getting me pretty much for free doing the work for my adult son. I don’t have to - I could stop tomorrow. I have absolutely no legal duty.

Either way the PA has to be with him and take him out- that is an assessed need. That is a requirement from social services and frankly if I did not arrange that my son would be deemed as ‘neglected’ as I am not meeting a need.

The PA and going out is the bulk of the cost in your factored £100. But be it the cinema or to the shops he needs the PA and the likelihood is that at some point there might be an Uber involved.

Have you any idea how tiring it is running someone’s life and actually having to organise where he goes, when, how he gets there, wha the does. It’s my Saturday night to and I have to make sure that he is ok and even then have to be on stand by.

The worst thing about it all is that I pay tax and my husband pays a ridiculous amount of tax and I strongly suspect have contributed to all those child benefits that people who have complained have benefited from. I have never begrudged that but as a family that paid an eye watering amount in tax but you begrudge my adult son his Pip.

The difference is that we are invested in the tax paying system as it makes society. My husband repaid furlough payments via the company he is involved in as it was the right thing to do . I believe in a system which is there for the vulnerable and for that reason I resented Liz Truss and her daft tax cut even though we were better off. Either you want a proper system to look after the vulnerable or you don’t. My sons dad has always voted to he taxed and believe in a state to look after the weak. He never begrudges the taxes he pays and I bet it’s considerably more than the people pay who begrudge the Pip system. As it happens his son is a beneficiary of this - that is why we have the tax system.

Might I also add that we did not qualify for child benefit so I could resent every family who received that and took their kids to the theatre or to the cinema or on holiday. How dare they when people like my husband was paying for it!

It’s the same argument.

Either you believe in the state or you don’t - but don’t take money out via things like child benefit and then complain as you are hypocrites.

Believe me, I would like nothing more than to stop posting about taxis. I am sure you can understand though that I don't want to be misrepresented.

I initially replied to this thread to suggest that the government isn't so much leading public opinion as reflecting it. There is a large proportion of the population that want disability payments to be better controlled and the government is cynically tapping into this. The poster that made the analogy about immigration is completely correct, politicians may play on people's fears but there is an underlying concern felt by many in the country. Some of it will be ableism or racism but a lot of it isn't and it is very polarising to assume that anyone suggesting reform or wanting to control costs is prejudiced. All this does is stifle debate and entrench opinion, which ultimately will not be seen on forums like this but will be reflected in the ballot box (as seen with Brexit). Maybe not this election as the Torys are fatally wounded but in one or two terms this will be a big issue as the number of disabled continues to rise and the costs spiral.

It is also similar to the NHS where reform is desperately needed but would be controversial as it would undoubtedly lead to the end of free universal healthcare. There are no easy solutions now for any of this. Harping on about some utopia where all British citizens get great free healthcare, all the disabled get their needs met, all children go to wonderful schools and poverty is eradicated is just so unhelpful when we live in a high indebted country that is teetering on recession. We have to get real, otherwise the inevitable changes will happen in an unmanaged way and this will drive up resentment and leave our vulnerable far worse off than they are now.

Nonsense.

Of course you can disagree with some policies without wanting the eradication of the state. I would wager that very few people totally support everything that the government spends money on but I would also bet that a large majority support the concept of the state.

You are at liberty to resent anyone you like! Child Benefit has been restricted to two children so you wouldn't be the first to question it. Also it's means tested so plenty of families don't qualify due to a parent earning too much. It is already subject to far more restrictions than it was.

A couple earning a large amount can still get CB. Single parents are penalised with the daft system the so called “means testing” operates on.

Having children is a choice. Being disabled isn’t.🙄

But it isn't the child's choice to be born ... Limiting Child Benefit pushes larger families into poverty. This has been proven by studies.

My point is, there are people that will lose out when you restrict nearly any benefit or service. Unfortunately we can't afford a welfare state without restrictions and there is very little public appetite to fund this anyway.

We cannot afford for people to keep having children (beyond 2 children) if their parents cannot meet their basic needs to prevent poverty. I suggest food, milk and clothes vouchers. Handing out money isn’t a viable option.

@Bumpitybumper

It is hard to have patience here.

Someone has already shown that actually there are less PIP claimants now than there were DLA claimants 10yrs ago. And that stats have been misrepresented to fit an agenda.

The root cause of issues is the NHS, education and inflation.

They need to be tackling those things, then you would find the bill falling vastly by comparison to what they propose doing.

I really don’t think they are going to be able to push this through.

So many straightforward things that could be done
Except everything you are proposing is totally lacking context and understanding of the system.

Indeed, all straightforward, but sadly dangerous in that it would result in services getting even worse!

There are restrictions. Despite the urban myths being pedalled on here, everyone, claiming PIP has to be assessed in one way or another. Medical evidence is usually required. It’s not just a case of wandering up there demanding money.

We surely need to support the most vulnerable, whether they are disabled, children or elderly.

It’s also the case that if the NHS/Mental health services improved, the situation might ease anyway.

I agree that limiting CB can push children into poverty, but, limiting disability benefits would do the same for adults and children.

The other thread on here is even worse.🙄

From the OBR:
Spending on disability benefits has risen from around £1.1 billion in 1985-86 to £39.1 billion in 2023-24 in nominal terms, and from 0.3 to 1.4 per cent of GDP over the same period.
The introduction of DLA led to rapid growth in caseloads and spending as a result of wider eligibility, the introduction of claimant self-assessment and a rise in take-up.
The introduction of PIP for working-age claimants in 2013 was intended to reduce spending by around 20 per cent relative to DLA, as people’s eligibility was ‘more rigorously’ reassessed. In fact, the introduction of PIP has led to higher spending, reflecting a greater volume of claims than expected, a higher proportion of them leading to an award, and recipients getting higher average awards on PIP than on DLA. Our January 2019 Welfare trends report provided further details on the trends in disability benefits spending over the past 30 years.
Disability benefits spending is set to rise by 49 per cent between 2023-24 and 2028-29.

It is really not an exaggeration to suggest that costs are spiralling.

Healthcare, inflation and education may well be underlying factors but they are incredibly hard nuts to crack and most developed countries are struggling to manage these things effectively. It can't be used as an excuse as to why we can't look at how we can best manage the ticking time bomb of the rapidly escalating costs associated with an increasingly disabled population.