To think good school places will be even harder to find next year because of the VAT on school fees

[Nesca1]

We are are looking at secondary schools for DS. We have our eye on a decent school bang in the middle of a solid middle class area . The school is always over subscribed; this year we would have gotten a place but last year we would have missed out because of how far we are from the school.
Usually, the school offers places to children living 1600m away, last year it was 1400m due to a large number of sibling applications.

Due to the whole VAT issue, i think more parents from the local area are going to be sending their kids to this school, rather than sending them to private schools.

Is this a reasonable assumption? I don't think parents will wait for the policy to be enacted, but they will move their year 6 children into this school.

@Kandalama The state offers you the option of a state school place. It is your choice whether to take it or educate your child another way.

Suggesting that a next step is not being allowed to own property or land is pure hyperbole.

Try this

Percentile points from 1 to 99 for total income before and after tax - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
Top decile cut-off is £51.1k net and £62k gross. Those are personal incomes 2021. Obviously the decile cut-off for a two parent household is at most £102k/124k, and that's on the ridiculous assumption that all top-decile earners exclusively form dual-income households with each other.

Also IFS Your household's income : Where do you fit in? | Institute for Fiscal Studies (ifs.org.uk) indicates £63k net as top decile for household income 2022.

I'd rely on the ONS and IFS more than Statista. Or "maybe you need to understand stats better."

There is a state education system that meets that legal requirement. Every child can have access. It’s a choice to use a private provision. It’s not a necessity.

It seems anything is possible.
Even what you may currently consider ridiculous.
I mean
Who would ever have thought a potential PM could really think women have penises. Who’d have thought that 20years ago.

Everything is possible if we allow the general modus operandi of removing choice and taxing education that no other EU country does.
What next?
Anything obviously.

Agree. Like I said earlier. It smacks of the privileged few desperately trying to hang on to that small extra bit of privilege. It’s so demeaning and ungracious. The tax break on private education is archaic and unfair. I don’t want a hike in fees, of course. But I also understand that it’s fair. I’ve benefited from it for a few years. I’m happy to pay the extra. Like I’m happy to pay taxes because I know I want to live in a fair and just society that does it’s best to give everyone equal opportunities.

Good for you with your spare money.

But you're still wrong. Not a luxury. A significant positive externality and a significant saving to the public purse.

Reasons to back this policy

• anger and jealousy whipped by by socialist rhetoric
• champagne socialist "I can afford to pay" and "I want to virtue-signal" while secretly "I'm happy to continue buying an even more exclusive education rather than advocating what I have for as many people as possible".

Argue for it all you like, but please drop pretending you're public-spirited in doing so. The public-spirited position calls for more private education, not less.

It’s not any of these things, it’s the U.K. that will be the outlier and the reason for that it’s a really crap idea with poor impact

I think you need to take a few deep breaths.

I just want good schools

You want to harm good schools. There is no virtue in taxing education; there is no virtue in calling to tax people who, unlike you, don't have spare money.

Oh I missed they wanted to pay more. That always crops up to on mn

Newspeak, "lockdown liberals" and "privilege"; parents have nothing to feel guilty about (substack.com)

Enjoy

🤣🤪😵‍💫
searching other suitable emojis and breathing……🤣yep, back again.
Still being realistic.

Rubbish. I work with children and families so see the difference first hand. I care enormously about them and see how hopeless the future is for some of them. It’s an unjust system (and I have huge cognitive dissonance using it) and the tax break is unjust. I am being 100% genuine. Believe it or not. I don’t mind either way.

Not want to. Know that the VAT idea is a fair one so will suck it up with good grace. Not throw my toys out of the pram and scream ‘it’s unfair!’

@MisterChips

"Reasons to back this policy

• anger and jealousy whipped by by socialist rhetoric"

Envy and jealousy is the argument of the losing side.

I would see one of the reasons to oppose this policy fear and hysteria whipped up by conservative rhetoric.

And of course private education is a luxury!

Thats an interesting read @MisterChips thanks!

( luckily I’m still breathing )

But surely you see that the problems in state need to be sorted, this has nothing to do with other forms of education.
The only current way to sort out state, quickly, is higher taxes for all as nothing else has been suggested. Still waiting….
( the same for the nhs as well)

Every A-level economics student gets taught private education is a double positive externality. But you think that's "rubbish". I'd go with the mainstream economists over a champagne socialist.

The tax break is "just" because, for the reasons we keep covering, it's a positive externality and a saving to the public purse. Every private school place directly saves the taxpayer 3-10x the value of the tax exemption. If you gave two hoots about state schools and the public finances, you'd be arguing for more private education, not less; more families paying for what you're happy to pay for, and the state's resources better able to concentrate on those in need.

"i have cognitive dissonance using it". So don't. Take your children out and put them somewhere else. You're happy enough to force that on other families, lacking your spare money, so lead by example.

Instead you're urging "privilege for me and not for thee". There is no virtue in your position.

Yep I agree

@MisterChips you seem to have a real chip on your shoulder thinking others are angry and jealous, and ignoring the real arguments put forward in this thread by people who support this policy.

Since not one of you people arguing for this policy has anything to say except "the rich can pay" and "private education is all about privilege"...

while the rest of us concern ourselves with, for example, tax revenues, behavioural responses, externalities, evidence, labour force participation and children...hearing no response....

...I think we're all agreed the resentment and anger is on your side of this debate.

What's your best "real argument"? Pretty sure we've been addressing them all as they arise. But try me.

There are absolutely no private schools where I live, and most children go to the nearest school (with some exceptions, for a variety of reasons). The private school situation won't affect us at all. I expect it will be completely different for those living in other locations, but, that said, I still don't feel like private schools should be subsidised in any way.