To think good school places will be even harder to find next year because of the VAT on school fees

[Nesca1]

We are are looking at secondary schools for DS. We have our eye on a decent school bang in the middle of a solid middle class area . The school is always over subscribed; this year we would have gotten a place but last year we would have missed out because of how far we are from the school.
Usually, the school offers places to children living 1600m away, last year it was 1400m due to a large number of sibling applications.

Due to the whole VAT issue, i think more parents from the local area are going to be sending their kids to this school, rather than sending them to private schools.

Is this a reasonable assumption? I don't think parents will wait for the policy to be enacted, but they will move their year 6 children into this school.

How much influence do you think that 6.4% of parents have compared with the other 93.6%?

Please do tell me about 'fair' and 'privilege'.

I was born in a communist country and survived two wars before I was 15. My parents sold every possession to pay for my 3x EU student PhD fee in the UK and I supported myself through it cleaning houses.

In my book everyone born in a peaceful, stable country is privileged. I already pay an obscene amount of tax as a PAYE, so no - I am not happy when someone tells me how privileged I am and how I need to suck it up for the greater good, because what's 20k gross more for me.

It’s not.

Median annual earnings for full-time employees is £66k in the top decile.

“Average” gross income per household in the United Kingdom is £196k for top decile.

Looking at the median individual earnings figure and the household “average” figure, I suspect that the latter might be skewed by some very high earners at the very top. I’m not 100% sure because I can’t access the breakdown.

Private education, in a country where they’re free at the point of access state education, is a luxury. There is no counter argument that I have found that makes any sense. It is a luxury and they are not charities. I use a private school. I know from the inside what benefits this provides because I see it from the other side with the families I work with. Quite frankly I feel it’s a bit demeaning to complain about it. I’ll happily pay the extra and the other parents I know might not want to but they can very easily find the extra with very little sacrifice.

"It’s a huge political step to start
taxing education and
take away choice."

It's not taxing education. It's removing an inappropriate tax break. And it's not taking away choice. The choice to pay still remains.

Also, it’s not just about income. There are lots of clever ways to minimise your income whilst accruing assets. Lots of the parents at our school own more than one property. Many have business so can minimise their income by paying it in dividends (which may or may not be counted in these graphs).

Absolutely.

And to be honest, if all private schools actually contributed to their local community in the way a tiny minority do, they would have put themselves in a much stronger position to oppose this policy.

I'd hazard a guess and say not much - especially as probably not all of the 6.4% will need to move.
On the flipside, I'd say the state schools can probably for the most part absorb them into the system.

Do you not think it strange that what you consider to be an “inappropriate tax break” is replicated in every single other country in the world, some of which actually provide income tax relief for PS parents?

Oh I understand that. I was replying to a poster who had accused another poster of not understanding stats.

I am very pleased that you have overcome such hardship and made such a wonderful life for yourself. It doesn’t negate the fact that use of private education in a country with free at the point of access education for all, IS a luxury.

And whilst you may not have come from a privileged background (neither did I), the fact that you can use private education and have that choice IS privileged.

I get why the possibility of a hike in fees is an emotional subject, but taking away that tax break is fair. You can’t argue with that sentiment. And the schools can choose to soften the blow by reducing profits. It doesn’t all need to fall to the parents.

It's not taxing education. It's removing an inappropriate tax break. Would you mind explaining what you mean by this. My understanding is that the proposal is literally to tax education i.e. to remove educational services from being an exempt supply, at least when provided by an independent school.

@Charlie2121 I'd have to know more about the education system in all those other countries before I could comment. I only know about the one that I use, and contribute my taxes and vote to.

Yes. Sorry to jump in. I just wanted to add that in. It really annoys me. I hear ALL about the clever accounting of the rich first hand and struggle to hide my annoyance. I had one dad boasting about how his company has a contract to do gardening for the Local Authority and how he over charges and it’s so lucrative. That’s tax payers money!! The brazen greed of some of the wealthiest people in the UK is pretty disgusting. I see that first hand and I see the abject poverty that some people live in, through no fault of their own, and it breaks my heart and makes my blood boil all at the same time! Sorry. Rant over.

Choosing private education is a luxury. It’s not taxing education. It’s taxing a luxury.

Because they are far more sensible and don’t indulge in this poor policy for votes

They know the benefit to a lower burden on state. They’d also not likely damage a successful sector by whacking on 20% - which let’s face it would close some businesses in any sector

Which is irrelevant.
A Government that takes away peoples democratic choice ( when there is no financial gain in the middle of a cost of living crisis as well ) are rewriting the book of choice.
You say you can pay and those you know can pay, that’s your choice…..your choice obviously isn’t being affected but
What about the 135,000 that wont have a choice and the many more that will struggle because they don’t want to uproot their kids from their friends and all they know.

What next
Remove our right to own property
Remove our right to own land
Not sort out our right to single sex spaces

What next for a Government that so freely takes away choice, lies about the financial benefit and gets everyone to believe them just because no one seems to really care whether there is a benefit at all. As long as we are all in the same boat.

We are not a communist country.

Can this thread get any more hyperbolic?

Part of that education is not a luxury. It’s a legal responsibility to educate your child. If the government gave everyone at private school a credit for the amount that the state would otherwise spend (some other countries do actually do this), then there would be an argument for taxing the extra that parents choose to pay.

No
It’s definitely taxing education. That’s what schools are for

Absolutely!

Nobody is taking away a choice. You can still pay for private education. If you can not afford it you do not have the choice to send your children to private school, just like many other parents. That is how capitalism works.

It’s not an exaggeration at all.
Its about being realistic and looking beyond the obvious

Struggle? Seriously? I think we will have to agree to disagree here. There is not one single family at our school that will ‘struggle’ in any meaningful way. The families I meet with through work know what the word ‘struggle’ really means.

I get that this is an emotional topic as it’s about doing the best for our kids. But please don’t equate what impact this will have to a ‘struggle’.